Episode 482 - Talking with Aaron Douglas of Custer State Park, SD

Hello Boys and Girls,

Today, we’re heading into the heart of the Black Hills to talk about one of the most legendary riding destinations in America: Custer State Park. Joining us is Aaron Douglas, who helps keep this incredible park running smoothly — even when thousands of riders roll in for the Sturgis Motorcycle Rally. We’re talking Needles Highway, Iron Mountain Road, wildlife, history, and everything you need to know before you ride through one of the most beautiful stretches of pavement in the country.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:25

Hello, boys and girls, and welcome to episode four eighty-two of the Motorcycle Men Podcast. I am Ted, your host, here in the V T Twin Cafe and Corner Booth, as always. I got my uh cup of water here, because I'm that badass. Today on the show, we're sitting down with Aaron Douglas, and we're heading into the heart of the Black Hills to talk about one of the most legendary riding destinations in America. Custer State Park. So he's gonna keep this park running smoothly, even when uh thousands of riders are rolling in for the Sturgis rally. We're gonna be talking about Needles Highway, Iron Mountain Road, wildlife history, everything you need to know before you ride through one of the most beautiful stretches of pavement in the country. But before we get into that, the motorcycle men podcast is brought to you by Scorpion Helmets. Now they're offering high-quality, innovative motorcycle helmets and technical apparel at an incredible value. So learn more, get on over to scorpionusa.com. And wild ass seats. Now you can improve your comfort and ability to stay in a saddle longer with a cushion from Wild Dash Seats. So if you're tired of those painful pressure points and fatigue, go to wildass.com and get your cushion today from the real Craig Johnson. And Viking Bags. Hey, they're a world leader in motorcycle luggage and one of the fastest growing companies in motorcycle parts. Now, luggage for whatever you need, whatever you ride, and wherever you go. Viking bags. And of course, as always, Tobacco Motorware. For the best in casual riding gear for men and women, there's only one place you should be going, and that's Tobacco Motorware. Visit them at tobacco motorware.com, and our listeners will get 10% off your order when you use the code Motomen. Hey, your safety is worth it. So get on over to Tobacco Motorware and get in Dave's pants. Hey, and you can also get Tobacco Motorware by going to the Motorcyclemen website at motomenpc.com. You can order your stuff there as well. All right, time now for that little chat with Aaron Douglas from Custer State Park, South Dakota. Alright, and we're back joining me today all the way from Where are you again?

SPEAKER_00 2:45

Uh Custer State Park in in beautiful South Dakota.

SPEAKER_02 2:49

Yes, and we have Aaron Douglas, correct?

SPEAKER_00 2:51

Correct, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:52

Aaron's here to tell us all about the park and what our riders and people attending the Sturgis Rally can expect as they're going through the park. Aaron, welcome to the show. How are you doing?

SPEAKER_00 3:04

I'm doing good. Uh I'm looking forward to rally coming up. It's it's always a fun and uh festive time to be out in the Black Hills.

SPEAKER_02 3:11

I bet. Hey, before we dive into that and get into all the stuff about the rally in the park, why don't you tell our listeners who you are and what you do uh at Custer State Park?

SPEAKER_00 3:22

Yeah, yeah. So uh uh Aaron Douglas, you already said my name, um, but I'm the interpretive manager, which is a fancy title, basically meaning all of our visitor centers and our public programs, a lot of our uh communicating with our public. I'm in charge of that. So paid staff and then also unpaid staff.

SPEAKER_02 3:39

Okay, great. Um what does uh your typical day look like for you during the rally? I have to imagine I have to imagine that it's absolutely chaotic.

SPEAKER_00 3:52

Um it it can be. Um usually during rally, I will help out at the gates of selling the uh bands, which we'll talk about later, I'm sure. Um, but I help out at the gates selling more of those bands. That way then we can uh you know handle the big influx of just more visitors and and more passes needing to be sold. Um but on the days where I'm I'm not doing that, um, I'm often then visiting our our visitor centers and making sure we we have what we need to be successful.

SPEAKER_02 4:21

Okay. Now Custler State Park has this really long history. Now, from your perspective, what makes that park uh unique uh as a South Dakota landmark? Has its mission and identity changed or evolved over the years, especially with the rally?

SPEAKER_00 4:41

Yeah, um, I would say like what is so unique and special about Custer State Park is like the diversity of the landscape and then also what you can do within the park as well. So I mean we're we're famous for the three scenic drives that go through the park, the wildlife loop, um, which takes you down into the south end. You've got the Needles Highway, uh, which takes you up kind of northwest into the park, and then that you've got Iron Mountain Road, which kind of goes kind of straight north up to Mount Rushmore. Um well, straight isn't a good way to describe it. No, no, um, it goes north uh for sure. Um but those three roads, like you know, you you can see it from a bike. Also, if you're older and you can't hike, you can see beautiful landscape all from your car, so it's very accessible to see it, but that landscape is wildly different. On the south end, on that wildlife loop, you've got um open prairie, and that's where usually where the bison are. And then on the north side, you've got these crazy uh rock spires right next to the road. You're zigging in and out of these different rocks and tunnels, and that's the exact same state park, but very different experience.

SPEAKER_02 5:45

Wow, you know what? Up until I would say maybe uh a day ago, I did not know there was a wildlife loop. I did not know that. Even the two times that I had been out there and been to the park, I didn't know there was a wildlife loop. Um, is that something that do you guys advertise these like these loop Iron Mountain Road, Needles Highway, and the Wildlife Loop? Is there like an advertisement or promotion of these rides that roads that people would know?

SPEAKER_00 6:15

Um there's a lot of uh papers and stuff, like maps of the the hills that are out and about at a lot of different places showing like scenic drives. Okay. Usually the scenic drives show needles and iron mountain road. Some of them will include the wildlife loop. I would say the majority of uh of bikes are gonna be going on the Iron Mountain Road and Needles. A lot more curves, right? A little bit more exciting of and exhilarating of a ride. The wildlife loop doesn't have as many curves, you can't you can't go as fast. And so it's usually a different type of person out here in the hill, whether they're in a in a car or they're they're on a motorcycle, they're they're going on that route because they want to see bison usually or they want to see open prairie kind of have a scenic drive. Whereas especially during the Sturgis Rally, um people on on motorcycles getting on Iron Mountain Road, they're looking for uh you know one of the the top roads uh in the country to take your your bike on. So um different experience, and because the Sturgis Rally is so big and there's so many people, uh you know, there's there's people on on all three of them.

SPEAKER_02 7:26

Yeah. Now that that brings me to the next question is uh the origin of these roads, uh Needles Highway, Iron Mountain Road. When these roads were designed, uh were they trying to achieve a specific kind of feeling or emotion, or uh just those tight turns and and the tunnels and of course the the scenic reveals is there was it were these were intentional designs?

SPEAKER_00 7:53

They were. Um so way back in the the 1920s, we had uh our governor, Peter Norbeck. Um when he was a state senator, he he started working on getting Custer State Park established as a state park and set aside. And when he was governor, he was able to do that. Uh ironically, he was able to do it, uh well, sort of ironically, because of Sturgis Rally, he was able to get Custer State Park formed by trading boats for um outlawing alcohol, uh which I find to be funny because yeah, because now you get to have both. Uh and uh it was such a good trade uh that he made. But, anyways, when he was the acting governor, he wanted to have a road going up into these really amazing rock pinnacles, um, and he wanted to make it accessible. And it was the 1920s, so everybody's starting to get automobiles, and he thought, they'll drive out here if we give them somewhere to drive.

SPEAKER_01 8:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:45

So he mapped it out as the acting governor on horseback, um, riding up among these rock spires, looking for the right route, um, and then they built the road. Uh, the famous quote is from the engineer who was a part of it, and uh Norbeck asked him, Do you think you can build this road? And he said, If you furnish me enough dynamite, yes, yes I can. Uh and they did, they did furnish enough dynamite, and they blasted the uh their way through two tunnels and had to adjust a few other things. But overall, he designed the route where it was using the landscape to get around stuff. And then once I needles highway was done, it was successful, people loved it, everyone kind of agreed, all right, this is a crazy project, but like this is this is objectively an awesome thing. Um, then during the Great Depression, and we had those CCC boys, Civilian Conservation Corps, um, then they started working on Iron Mountain Road, and then they purposely designed that one to have three tunnels that frame Mount Rushmore. So that one's really famous for all the pictures, and and people will stop at those tunnels and get pictures taken.

SPEAKER_02 9:50

That's cool. I mean, it's when you think about it, 1920s this was done. And you gotta think about the vehicles that we had at that time. And obviously the road construction methods were significantly more different than they are today. Um the challenges they must have faced just putting all that together.

SPEAKER_00 10:11

Yeah, and some of the pictures of it early on are are pretty impressive because there's no guardrails and it's all dirt gravel road. Yeah. And you've got like a Model T Ford driving up there, and you're like, can that thing even handle hills?

SPEAKER_02 10:25

I imagine. Um is there a place where people can go to see the construction process, how it was built, all these roads, how they were made?

SPEAKER_00 10:37

There's there's some visitor centers and some places where you can go to see that. Um, in our main visitor center, we have a park movie, and uh it plays the top and bottom of every hour, and uh it's got some information about our history. Also up in Hill City is the Civilian Conservation Corps Museum for South Dakota, so they have a bunch of pictures of of Iron Mountain Road being built. Um, but I wouldn't say there's like one place to go and then you can see a whole bunch of stuff. Okay, it's 1920s, so taking pictures of people building a road, uh people didn't think that was a great idea for posterity, even though nowadays we kind of wish they had taken more pictures.

SPEAKER_02 11:14

Oh, yeah. Is Hill City part of the park or in the park?

SPEAKER_00 11:18

It is not, it is north of us, okay. Um, a little bit ways away, but um, yeah, it's a it's a nice, delightful town, like all of our towns up here in the Black Hills.

SPEAKER_02 11:28

Yeah, absolutely. Uh let's talk about the rally impact. How does the Sturgis Rally uh change your park operations like with staffing and traffic management, certainly with the wildlife monitoring, and and what does your team do like behind the scenes to keep it all running smoothly?

SPEAKER_00 11:49

Yes, uh, and I like that you think it runs smoothly. I appreciate that. Um I would say it changes things a lot. Um, for my visitor centers, it doesn't change too much. We're still open the same amount of time, it's just the people coming in wear a lot more leather during the Sturgis rally. Yeah. Um and you know, kind of trend maybe slightly differently in what they're interested in. But it doesn't change too much for visitor centers. For campgrounds, there's still people camping, we're still full. It's just people might be bringing a toy hauler with bikes in the back instead of uh bringing a giant RV and then just driving around in some small car. Um but our gates is where we really see the big change because we'll change our gates to where um we'll have dedicated bike lanes that are uh cache only. Um and that seems to work really well and it allows us to get the uh anybody on a motorcycle quickly through, but then we can still handle the vehicles uh in their own dedicated lane. So that helps a lot, but no matter how many signs you put out there, sometimes people are driving too fast, sometimes people don't read too well, maybe they don't have their glasses on, uh, and they can't quite tell. So we have to get a bunch of other staff, and it looks every gate looks a little bit like an airport of people pointing over here, you go here, you go here. Um, and that seems to keep kind of uh the piece. And then the other thing that changes for us is one of our tunnels, the smallest one, Needle's Eye Tunnel, uh, it's small enough that you can only get a vehicle going through one way, but it's also the longest of the tunnels in the park. So you can't quite see the other side of it when you start to go into it, because just because you kind of have to curve to get in.

SPEAKER_01 13:25

Right.

SPEAKER_00 13:25

Um, so we during Sturgis Rally, we have people there with stop signs and we have to play traffic cop, or else the traffic would get bungled up. And uh if two bikes tried to go through it, they might be able to fit. Um, but if a trike went through there and then uh you know a regular bike came in, it wouldn't quite have enough room, and then that's gonna ruin not just those two people's day, but everybody's day as we try and get everything out of there. Has that happened before? Uh it hasn't because we have our traffic cops. So that's that's why they're really important.

SPEAKER_02 13:58

Is that the guys that dress up like stormtroopers?

SPEAKER_00 14:01

Uh that is a separate guy who lives in the town of Custer and he just likes making people smile. Uh yeah, if we gave him a stop sign, I bet he would help us.

SPEAKER_02 14:10

That's pretty awesome though. Um yeah, because I think because the I I the first time I went through the tunnel of needles, I thought how crazy is it that there are people who are coming there and going through with a motorcycle is one thing, going through with a trike is another. And then I see people going through there with their cars or with a big pickup truck, and occasionally some larger vehicles. Has that ever created a problem for you guys?

SPEAKER_00 14:39

Uh it has. Um, it has. There's also the hood tunnel uh in the park, and that one seems to get more people just because of the way they get into the the park that direction. Um, but yeah, a few times every year, it sometimes it'll be like sprinter vans, uh where people are like, oh, our vehicle is not that tall, but they forget that they attached uh an air conditioner to the top. Um, and then that is what causes the grinding sound as they drive through. Um but a few times every year, but most people are pretty good. Um we get a lot of people who almost are overly concerned. They're like, okay, we flew in, we rented uh a sedan, can we fit through the tunnel? And we're like, yeah, you're fine. Don't worry about it. Like your sedan's fine. Um so uh yeah, but a few times every year, some people miss the miss the memo, right? And then they try to drive through and then it kind of messes things up for everybody else for a little while as we have you ever had have you ever had to turn anybody away because they're they you knew their vehicle was too big? That does happen up at our Sylvan Gate, which is our busiest one outside of Sturgis or not. Um but yeah, that happens sometimes where people will arrive and they're like, oh, we're planning on doing Needles Highway, and the staff there have been trained to just kind of pretty pretty good eyeball some vehicles and be like, well, you look awfully tall, and you should maybe get out a measuring tape uh before you you commit to that. So um yeah, we we try and help people out or remind them if we see a big vehicle going the wrong direction. But the vast majority of people, the park sees about 2.3 million visitors a year, and the vast majority of them fit through that tunnel just.

SPEAKER_02 16:13

Wow. Now uh I I did look up the numbers earlier, but I I believe uh Needles Highway is the narrowest of the two, correct?

SPEAKER_00 16:21

Correct.

SPEAKER_02 16:22

It's at seven feet nine inches or something like that? Is that correct?

SPEAKER_00 16:25

Yeah, I think it's uh our our Department of Transportation measures it every year, and I think with a few a few small rocks falling off, it's now officially eight feet wide.

SPEAKER_02 16:34

It's eight feet wide. Now that that goes for both tunnels now, right?

SPEAKER_00 16:38

Well, that's the smallest one at needles. I'm not sure of the size of the other ones, but I've just memorized the smallest one. So if you fit through the smallest one, you're good to go.

SPEAKER_02 16:46

How many tunnels are there?

SPEAKER_00 16:47

Uh so there's two on needles. Well, actually, there's three. There's three on needles, uh, the Hood, Iron Creek, and Needles. And then on Iron Mountain Road, there are three. Uh I can't remember all the names, but there's yeah, so that's six tunnels to go through.

SPEAKER_02 17:03

Wow. Okay. Uh we'll we'll talk about the roads a little bit more in a moment. Okay. Uh now your attendance. Now you you mentioned a two point something million visitors a year. What kind of visitor numbers do you typically see uh normally during the summer months? Now, does that and how does that how does the rally affect that, especially on Needles Highway and Iron Mountain Road and of course the wildlife loop?

SPEAKER_00 17:28

Yeah, all the scenic drives definitely it feels like there's a uh an extra amount of people around um during Sturgis, um, for sure. I would say like we're we're a pretty darn busy park in July and right before a rally, during rally, and then right after rally. So it's more of the change of who those visitors are and maybe what they're interested in and what they're doing, uh, or maybe what vehicle they're in, um, but we're we never really stop being busy until uh usually the snow falls.

SPEAKER_02 17:57

Now you have uh Sturgis doesn't uh not just have the uh motorcycle rally, of course they have a Jeep rally and they have a couple other rallies throughout the year. Does does the influx of different uh events happening in there, does that change the dynamic of the people that are visiting the park and their vehicles, and how does that impact the park?

SPEAKER_00 18:19

Yeah, I would say Sturgis Rally is the only one that's big enough that we really see uh really okay we have to change anything here. Um for the other rallies, uh it'll just be somebody at a gate who's like, well, this seems weird that there's 20 jeeps all lined up in a row. Like, ah, interesting. Or at another gate, I think the town of Custer, right next to the park, they do a uh like a side-by-side rally in May or early June every year, and so there'll be a line of like 30 side-by-sides all ready to come into the park. Okay, this must be some sort of rally, because that seems like an awfully large family.

SPEAKER_02 18:52

So you guys don't get any advance aside from the motorcycle rally. Do you guys get any advanced notice of uh okay, well, this is the kind of rallies we got going on this year, so this is what you should expect.

SPEAKER_00 19:05

Um we can just look at the the calendar of like local events and stuff, but like those ones aren't large enough that really impact us too much, just because once it's summertime, we have staff all around doing all kinds of stuff, so but we can easily absorb uh an extra 40 people who randomly show up because it's a Corvette rally and they want to drive Needles Highway as they should. It's spectacular.

SPEAKER_02 19:27

Uh on an aside, do you ever get cyclists riding through these roads?

SPEAKER_00 19:33

Like bicyclists?

SPEAKER_02 19:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:34

Oh, yes, all the time. There's several uh companies that bring people in and then they they kind of have stations for them of of stuff, and yeah, they come through all the time. They usually start very early in the morning, which we all appreciate, just because traffic gets higher and higher as it goes up. But they'll do needles. Uh they do wildlife loop, uh, which that one the road's a little bit wider. Um, you know, it's not just not as narrow as the needles, so that one seems to work decently well. Um, I don't know if they do Iron Mountain Road or not. Um, I assume that they do, um, just because it seems multiple days every week throughout the summer, there's there's cyclists on the road. But usually for of the needles eye, needles needles highway, they're usually starting that one at like 7 a.m. in the morning, and they're they're down and done and off of it by 8.39.

SPEAKER_02 20:27

That's crazy. Wow. And does everybody start the same direction, the south to north?

SPEAKER_00 20:33

Um like for anybody or just the cyclists?

SPEAKER_02 20:37

Well, in general, anybody. Does everybody do that that because it seems like every time I've gone, it was I guess it's from the south end, heading north, that that we go. Is that is that like the most common direction people travel?

SPEAKER_00 20:51

Yeah, I I think it really just depends upon where someone's staying and their direction. Me personally, I think needles in Iron Mountain Road are the most pleasing if you drive them from the south to the north, because you're starting lower and then you drive up. Right. And then for Iron Mountain Road, then you end up coming down as you kind of get closer to Mount Rushmore. Um, so I think they're better going that way. But I think during Sturgis Rally, because a lot of people are starting their ride up at Sturgis, they end up coming down one of them and then up the other one. Uh-huh. So it's like 50-50.

SPEAKER_02 21:24

Oh, okay. I got you. Um Wow. I get now you now as far as it goes for the the attendance on which which of those roads do you see get used more during the rally? Is it needles, iron mountain, or the wildlife loop?

SPEAKER_00 21:38

Uh it is it is one hundred percent needles. Really? Uh yeah. Uh having worked at that gate many, many years, um people show up and uh what I really enjoy about the Sturgis Rally is just like the camaraderie of of everybody. It's it's really quite fun. But there'll be somebody leading a group of people and and maybe they're friends from another state or something and And they were like, all right, this is where Needle starts. Pay your money. Let's go. And they're like, what's so special about this road? Why are we paying for this? Uh and then their leader in the front is like, shut up. It's worth it. You we're not on it yet, but just like, hang on. I know what I'm doing. I do this every year. And I I I enjoy watching that interaction. So I'm like, yeah, like they're they're absolutely right. Like this this is a pretty spectacular road.

SPEAKER_02 22:24

It is. You know, um one of the things that I enjoyed uh the couple times that I went is uh seeing the wildlife. Now, while I didn't do the wildlife loop, yeah, uh it is the wildlife is the one of the biggest drawers of the park. Uh it is, and sometimes it provides no great surprises for the riders. What should motorcyclists know about bison behavior, you know, the deer, the burrows, and the other wildlife during the rally, and how does the park manage the wildlife rider interactions?

SPEAKER_00 22:56

Yeah, so uh first off, for when it comes to like our wildlife, like they can go anywhere in the park. So sometimes people are are on Iron Mountain Road and they think, well, this isn't bison area, and then you come around the corner and then there's there's a bull in the middle of the road, and that definitely changes how things work. Um what what we've noticed over the years is as long as uh as long as you stay on your motorcycle, even if there's you're on the wildlife loop and the bison are crossing the road and they're kind of all around you, as long as you stay on that that bike, it doesn't seem to register to the bison that a person is right there. To them, it's just another vehicle, another metal loud thing that makes noise and smells weird, and they just go right around.

SPEAKER_01 23:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:42

As soon as you get off that bike, now there's a distinction between a machine that they have no feelings really towards, and now a person, which they often have strong feelings about. Um so you can look up on YouTube the most famous YouTube video from Custer State Park is from 2020. It was during Sturgis Rally, it was on Iron Mountain Road. Um, look it up. Uh but it is uh it is a great example of what can happen when you approach the bison, you get off your bike, um, and it's it's uh yeah, it's just a pretty famous video. So if you haven't seen it, look it up. Uh all your listeners should look it up too. Well, we'll reminder.

SPEAKER_02 24:20

I'm sure we've all seen on the news recently uh where bison had tossed somebody eight feet in the air. Um that's that's that's been that's been similar to that.

SPEAKER_00 24:29

Yeah, it's similar to that, yeah. Uh the other thing to remember is when the Sturgis rally takes place, it is during rut. So the round in the hills has never at a higher level because we have you know all these people coming for Sturgis, and then you also have all these bull bison who uh who are also looking for a good time. Exactly, exactly. Wow, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:52

Uh do do the burrows and the deer and the other wildlife uh interact or uh create difficulties for motorcyclists during the rally?

SPEAKER_00 25:03

Uh certainly in the evening, a lot of a lot of folks don't want to be in the park too late because they don't want to come around a corner and then there's a deer. Yeah. Um which I totally get that. Even in the summer in my car driving home, I'm like, oh no, it's eight o'clock. Like there's gonna be deer everywhere on my way home. Um so that's something that that is of concern to some people. The burrows just do their thing, they hang out by the road and and hope people will feed them. We would prefer people don't feed them, but our official policy is that we're not stopping people from doing it. And there's a lot of a lot of bikers will come in, and that's one of the reasons they want to drive the wildlife loop is they they want to go see the burrows. Wow. That's okay.

SPEAKER_02 25:41

Wow. All right. Uh moving on, uh now timing. Oh my god. Anytime I have ever gone to needles and of Iron Mountain, I ended up sitting in this parking lot for hours and hours on end. What is the best time of day for riders to experience needles, Iron Mountain Road, and Wildlife Loop?

SPEAKER_00 26:04

Yes. Uh I I would encourage anybody uh get started early, which I realize can be a challenge with how much evening entertainment is during rally. Like there's a reason why there's not a ton of bikers hitting the park at 8 a.m. And it's because the concerts don't start till 10, right? And then it's not really over till midnight. So I get that. Um but if you skip the evening entertainment one night, then you'll be set up and ready to come into the park early in the morning. Uh you can arrive at 8 a.m. Even 9 a.m. it's not that bad. Okay. Um, and then you can you can get through most of the roads pretty well, depending upon you know how much how much breaks you take and stuff. But um, if you can get started early, you have a lot more of that road to yourself.

SPEAKER_02 26:48

Uh now, what time does the park open?

SPEAKER_00 26:51

Yeah, uh technically we open up at uh 6 a.m. Oh and we close at 11 p.m. Uh, unless you are staying overnight in the park. So people can arrive get can arrive um pretty early if they want to.

SPEAKER_02 27:04

Right. Now uh aren't isn't the wildlife a little more active than their early hours?

SPEAKER_00 27:10

Uh it can be. Uh there can be, but uh uh if you're arriving, I think I mean August is still summertime. If you're arriving sometime after 7, somewhere between 7 and like 9, you're not gonna see much wildlife near the roads. The sun's already been up for well over an hour or two. Um so the deer and stuff have kind of left. And uh yeah, you shouldn't run into too many issues. If you're trying to, you know, drive, starting leaving Sturgis at like 4 30 a.m. Yeah, you're probably gonna run into some deer and stuff. So you know, maybe wait a little bit longer, sleep in a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 27:43

Yeah, well, what's what what is uh what time is sunset up there?

SPEAKER_00 27:47

Yeah, so I I believe I even looked that up. Um so during the rally, I believe sunset is around like 8 39, somewhere in there. So like you still have some time to to get back, even if you're you're riding around the park at dinner time. You still have some time to get back.

SPEAKER_02 28:02

So uh well how's the how's the well, how's the traffic after 6 p.m.?

SPEAKER_00 28:06

Uh it it decreases significantly because of all that evening entertainment. People want to get back, they want to have dinner, and then they want to get to the show and have a good time, which I don't blame anybody for wanting to do that. Every year I look and see what the what the Buffalo Chip concerts are gonna be, what the full throttle saloon concerts are gonna be, because some of them are are pretty good.

SPEAKER_02 28:26

Yeah, they are they got some great stuff going on. I just you know, like I said, the last two times I hit uh Needles Highway, I it it was it was hot and I was sitting still for the longest time. And it kind of like ruined it for me. Uh Needles Highway. Iron Mountain Road, on the other hand, was wonderful because I feel like people don't know it's there. That's the impression I got because we're you know, I was turning, I was riding with two other people, and we turned left onto this road, and it's like we were the only ones who did that. And then when we got it, we're like, yeah, this is it, and it was great.

SPEAKER_00 29:01

So I think part of the that reason is because Iron Mountain Road, the majority of the road is in the National Forest, so it's free. You never have to pay to do that one. Whereas the wildlife loop and Needles Highway are both entirely inside of Custer State Park, so you have to have a state park license. So that slows the traffic down a little bit. Yeah. Because then you've got people stopping, having to pay to get a park entrance license, which they're good for seven days. So sometimes you get rained on, right? You do maybe one or two of the routes, and then you're like, well, it's hailing, let's not do more.

SPEAKER_01 29:36

Do you get hail up there a lot?

SPEAKER_00 29:38

We we do, and it feels like there's at least one day during the two weeks of rally where it it it hails pretty good, and there's usually some some motorcyclists who once it stops show up at a gate and they're like, Oh my god, that was the worst experience I've ever had.

SPEAKER_02 29:55

Now, uh with now this is a custard is a state park, right?

SPEAKER_00 29:59

Correct.

SPEAKER_02 30:00

So anybody who might have one of those national park passes, that doesn't count, does it?

SPEAKER_00 30:05

Correct. And that's probably like the first question we get at almost every yeah, just because you know the a lot of people who come for Sturgis are uh either older or they're veterans, and so they they have maybe one of those uh passes. Maybe they they got one for being a yeah, a disabled military veteran. And it's always such a bummer because they're like, I want to use this thing, and you're like Yeah, I can't. Great thing to have, but it means nothing here.

SPEAKER_02 30:32

Oh my gosh. That's alright though. Now uh for riders planning their route. Uh what uh uh as far as it goes for park amenities, what do we have inside the park that riders can expect?

SPEAKER_00 30:46

Yes, yeah. I would say first and foremost, the most important thing is there's a lot of different restrooms, flushing and non-flushing restrooms all over the place. Anytime you see one, there's always a group of bikes by it. So I appreciate people using our facilities. But there are uh resorts inside of the park, so different lodges and the Grace Coolidge General Store and the Bluebell Lodge, both of them set up outdoor cook tents, and then they have a bunch of picnic tables, and that way you can just drive up, you never leave sight of your bike, you can get some food, you can get some something to drink, get that done at a picnic table, take what 10-15 minutes, and then you can get back and get starting riding. Because that's the whole point, right? It's not about uh during the day necessarily sitting around in a parking lot like you were talking about. It's you want to be on, you want to get moving. Um, so they allow uh motorcyclists to be able to kind of get food and and get going again. And they usually have on sale, uh not on sale, but they're usually selling uh bison burgers and some other stuff, which that's one of the things a lot of people want to get when they come out to the west, right? Whether it's South Dakota or some other western state. Yeah. They they want to get some bison.

SPEAKER_02 31:51

Well, now what is that restaurant? Uh again, going from south to north, near the very end, there's a there's one of the restaurant gift shop visitor centers there. Which one is that?

SPEAKER_00 32:02

Yeah, you might be thinking of maybe like the Sylvan Um store, and it's right there at the very northern top of uh uh the Needles Highway. Yes, yes, yes. And that's a large parking lot where a bunch of people get their pass, they go in there, they get some food, and then they they go to meet. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:19

That's where I ate last time.

SPEAKER_00 32:21

Yeah, it's it's basically like uh an extra bike show because there's so many people there. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:25

Now, is it as far as it goes for hidden gems in the park, is there anything like that that riders just generally miss? Or visitors in general?

SPEAKER_00 32:34

Yeah, I can't think of anything. Um, I mean, there's like some cool gravel roads and stuff, but nobody on a Harley wants to go on a gravel road.

SPEAKER_02 32:42

Oh, you'll be surprised you'll be surprised.

SPEAKER_00 32:44

Some do, but a lot of them really don't want to. So there's kind of some cool gravel roads and stuff to do, but there are some things just outside of the park that I think are are worth considering. Um, so one of them is you've got like Iron Mountain Road, um, but there's a section, there's a a road called Playhouse Road. Um, and the section between 16A, which is Iron Mountain Road, up to Highway 40, is very curvy, not a ton of bikers on it, usually not a ton of traffic at all. Um, but that can be a really rewarding and and fun ride. I mean, it's got switchbacks, it's got some rock features. It's not Needles Highway, it's not Iron Mountain Road, but uh it's it's a cool, it's a cool section. And then up by the town of Hill City, there's the old Hill City Road, uh, what used to be the main way to get there. And that one I've seen on a few maps online of uh different bike routes to take, is some of them will be like, oh, here's an old, old-fashioned route, because it's just a little two-lane road and it just kind of zigzags between the mountains, and it's uh it's it's fun, it's another good one too. Wow. But neither one of those are within Custer State Park. But they're nearby, and I think if somebody wants to get off of one of the main drags where everybody else is, and you want to kind of get an experience where there's not as many people, those would be good options.

SPEAKER_02 34:01

Are there park maps available?

SPEAKER_00 34:05

There are. So uh when people come into the park, um, when you purchase that park entrance license, we have a whole magazine thing for you. Most people just want the back page, which is the map. Um, but throughout the hills, at almost every restaurant, there's going to be these nice tear-off maps that they make specific ones for Sturgis Rally that then highlight different routes to take, and then also the difficulty, which is really helpful because within Custer State Park, we've got Needles Highway, which is definitely like you need to know what you're doing if you want to have fun on that. Uh Iron Mountain Road is the same way, um, but then the uh a few tiers below or just one tier below is in the wildlife loop. It's not as uh challenging of a ride, but there is one section with two switchbacks, and every year on the radio, when we hear there's a wreck on on uh the wildlife loop, we pretty much know it's at mile marker five because that's where the switchbacks are. Uh and somebody wasn't prepared for that because this is supposed to be the easier ride, but there's no straight roads in the Black Hills, and that's the reason why the surface rally is so successful.

SPEAKER_02 35:07

Wow, that's that's I I I didn't know that. Well, see, I learned something new today. That's excellent. Let's talk about um uh camping. Now, if folks wanted to camp at Custer State Park, they can, correct?

SPEAKER_00 35:21

They absolutely can. We allow registrations for our campsites up to a year in advance, so a lot of people you know will do it way ahead of time because they're planning on coming in. We do have one campground called Center Lake, where it is same-day reservations year-round. Um, so people who maybe aren't planning that far ahead, they don't know how long they're gonna be around. That can be a really good option as well. Um, but center lake does not have electricity, so that kind of scares away some people. One thing that does get a lot of people coming for Sturgis, and it's just a thing that people don't think about, and it's just the way we have things set up, we have to follow our rules, uh, is people will come in with a truck and maybe they're hauling their their bikes, so and they're camping in the park, so they have to buy a park entrance license for their truck and then separate ones for their bikes, and that kind of miffs some people some. Um, but the way we handle stuff, if you're paying by vehicle, and so the that's that's a thing that just happens every year. And and most people are like, I get it, but like I wasn't planning on spending that much money to drive around, and we're like, we know, and like everywhere you go for surgeons rally, somebody's trying to take your money to provide some service. So we get it.

SPEAKER_02 36:33

It's all right. Uh as far as it goes for the camp campsites, uh, are there any sites that for for those have who have RVs? There are there sites that provide full connections?

SPEAKER_00 36:44

We don't have any full hookup sites within Custer State Park. Okay. There's a bunch of private campgrounds outside of the park that do provide full hookup, but that's sort of kind of where we've drawn the line as a park because we're like, we'll provide camping, but if you want full hookup, that's a thing that you can go into the private market for.

SPEAKER_02 37:01

Okay. Now, do you allow uh RVs to come in with uh generators?

SPEAKER_00 37:07

Yes, we do allow generators. Um up at Center Lake, um, we have specific rules on how long you're allowed to run them, and then there are quiet hours overnight where you're not allowed to run them. But yeah, you are welcome to bring a generator.

SPEAKER_02 37:21

Okay, awesome. So now we know. Uh let's talk about the weather. We briefly touched on that. Yeah. The weather can change up there pretty quick, as I as I have experienced. Now, what should what should riders know about temperature, uh temperature swings, you know, uh storms, wind, road conditions in August during the rally.

SPEAKER_00 37:42

Yes, yeah. Uh be prepared for various weather, uh, for sure. We already mentioned hail, which that does happen. Um, we also get really hot days. There's always a few days during rally where it's just it's just 90 plus degrees, and it's just super hot. Been there done that, and then yeah, yeah. Which some people are like, hey, I'd rather it be super hot than it be rainy. And I'm like, I get that. Like, that's much probably a better enjoyable ride. But um, be prepared for it to be hot, but also what happens sometimes is there'll be a big switch, right? It'll be 90-some degrees, and then we'll get like a rain or storm or hail event, uh, and then the next day the high will be 75, and it'll be a way different temperature, and maybe at night it dips down into the 60s or 50s or something. So just kind of be prepared for a lot of different temperatures, and it could be that on the days you visit it doesn't change, and it also could be the five days you're here, it's different every single day. What's and it is different whether you're down in the plains or you're up in the hills.

SPEAKER_02 38:44

Okay, so what's the wildest temperature difference you've seen in one day?

SPEAKER_00 38:50

In one day, I think I've seen it change by about like 20 some degrees relatively quickly, because it was like 90-some degrees, uh, and this was a couple weeks ago, and then we had one of those storms come in, and then the the temperature was like 72 after the storm because it was in the evening when it came, so it was already cooling off a bit, but then the the the storm and stuff kind of came from the north, and north wind started moving in, and yeah, it just changed 20 some degrees within 10 minutes, which just to let you know, up in Spearfish, the world record for temperature change occurred there. So the Black Hills, it's nothing new. Um, yeah, I can't remember the exact time, but I think it was within eight minutes it changed 52 degrees or something like that up in Spearfish.

SPEAKER_02 39:35

See now see now you got me curious and I gotta look it up.

SPEAKER_00 39:38

Yeah. Uh they do a whole uh they do a whole festival every winter for it because it happened in the winter. Because out here in the winter we get a thing called Chinook winds where warm air will come down the mountains and it warms everything up and it can significantly warm things up.

SPEAKER_02 39:53

Yeah, it says the fastest temperature change, the fastest temperature change uh rec uh uh recorded took place um in Spearfish, South Dakota on January 22nd, 1943. The temperature shot up by 49 degrees in two minutes.

SPEAKER_00 40:09

Yes. I don't think that's gonna happen in August. Um still wildly different weather and sort of extremes. That's that's what the Great Plains are good at. Wow.

SPEAKER_02 40:22

Uh at any point, do you guys have to close the roads in the park?

SPEAKER_00 40:26

Uh we close them after accidents, which is always accidents every year, um especially on Needles and Iron Mountain Road. You have those nice awesome sweeping curves, um, but then people will hug that middle line and lean a little too far, and then there will be head-on collisions. And those ones are the worst ones. The majority of wrecks are head-on collisions like that, hugging that that middle line. Um, when I first started working here, I thought it'd be a lot more of people just not making curves and they're hitting the guardrails or whatever, but it's a lot more of leaning and hitting each other in the middle, um, which leads to more severe issues. Yeah, I can imagine. We do have, yeah, but we do have um uh uh first responders stationed in the park. We know about every day there's gonna be a wreck somewhere. It might not be super serious, but we have a lot of people and we need to get it cleared up quickly. So at the base of uh Iron Mountain Road and at the base of Needles Highway, we have first responders with an ambulance, and they just sit there for two weeks and they go up at least once every day, sometimes multiple times, and live light and and helicopters are are ready because we know there's a lot of people on the roads that accidents happen.

SPEAKER_02 41:35

Yeah. Oh, if you're coming in from the southern point and to go north, there there's that lake that's right there. What is that?

SPEAKER_00 41:42

Yeah, that's Angostora uh reservoir down there. Okay. And there's also a a state park right along at Angostora Recreation Area, and there's camping available there too. Um but that's a it's a pretty cool site, and then certainly if you're into large bodies of water, that's a great place to visit.

SPEAKER_02 41:57

Oh, okay, great. Uh now within uh the park, when you first enter the park from the south end, isn't there another lake or a lodge right there?

SPEAKER_00 42:06

Uh kind of not totally in the south, um, but kind of on the the um midwest side of the park is Bluebell Lodge. Okay. Um, and so there's some stuff there. And there are lakes within the park, none of them as big as that Ingestora Reservoir, but we do have lakes within the park.

SPEAKER_02 42:24

All right. Uh I don't really have anything else uh to ask you at this moment, but it's time now for these ten rapid fire questions I warned you about. Are you ready? Here we go.

SPEAKER_00 42:36

Yeah, I'm ready.

SPEAKER_02 42:37

All right. Number one, favorite overlook in the entire park.

SPEAKER_00 42:42

Oh, my favorite overlook is it doesn't have a name, but it's just north of the wildlife station on the wildlife loop. You get to look out, and then you see the beautiful prairie, and it makes me think of a John Wayne movie.

SPEAKER_02 42:54

Oh, okay. Needles Highway, tunnels or curves, which is the bigger thrill?

SPEAKER_00 43:00

Uh I would say the tunnels.

SPEAKER_02 43:03

Okay. I didn't expect that. That's all right. Uh best wildlife sighting you've ever had on duty.

SPEAKER_00 43:10

Oh, that's a good one. Um, probably the best one that I had or ever had would be um seeing a little bit of the bison rut and seeing from the wildlife loop two of the bulls clashing into one another. Uh just like that's a lot of force hitting each other. Like it was a lot. So it was a good reminder of just how big and athletic they are.

SPEAKER_02 43:34

Alright. Uh now Iron Mountain Road, the pigtail bridges, is that genius or madness?

SPEAKER_00 43:43

Oh, I think it's genius.

SPEAKER_02 43:45

Really?

SPEAKER_00 43:45

Yeah. And there's actually one other pigtail bridge in Wind Cave. So if you want to hit all of them, you have to go down into Wind Cave National Park and hit the last pigtail bridge.

SPEAKER_02 43:56

Let me tell you something. When I rode Iron Mountain Road for the first time and I came to those pigtailes. I was like, oh my God. I was like, I was on the edge of my seat. I didn't expect it. Wow. But it was pretty cool. All right, number five is one thing riders always underestimate.

SPEAKER_00 44:17

I would say they always underestimate how many other people are going to be there, especially when they arrive at lunchtime.

SPEAKER_02 44:24

I can believe that. Alright, number six, sunrise or sunset in Coaster State Park.

SPEAKER_00 44:31

I'm going to go with sunset. Just because I feel like there's way more people who wake up early and get here and way less people who stick around until the evening.

SPEAKER_02 44:40

Okay. I'll go with that. Number seven, most surprising fact about the park's bison herd.

SPEAKER_00 44:47

Oh boy, most this is supposed to be rapid, but I really have to think on this one. Most surprising fact, I guess, would be oh, here's something interesting. Um, we've always had to reduce the amount of bison we have within the park because we only have so much space. So at a certain point, you run out of food. And way back in the day, um, we would just sell them off for meat. We would shoot them, we would harvest them, and sell the meat off. Now we do an auction, but during World War II, um, the park made a ton of money because bison meat did not fall onto ration cards. So if you had money, you could purchase bison meat, and it was considered wild game, uh, and you were able to then buy that and have extra meat. So rich people all over the U.S. found out they could buy bison meat and still have steaks during World War II, and we made money off of it. Wow.

SPEAKER_02 45:39

I didn't know that. Huh, interesting stuff. Uh number nine. Uh no, number eight. Uh, your favorite time of year in the Black Hills?

SPEAKER_00 45:47

Oh, my favorite time is probably uh mid to late fall. You have to change all the spins of colors, yeah. It's spectacular.

SPEAKER_02 45:55

I would I would probably believe that. Which which brings me to another question not related to our rapid fire. That's okay. Um does that pose uh uh safety issues with the roads, like leaves and things like that?

SPEAKER_00 46:08

Uh leaves not so much, um, just because the majority of the trees out here are the Ponderosa pine. Sure. We certainly still have some leaves trees like those aspens, but not too much. Yeah, not too much.

SPEAKER_02 46:19

Oh wow, okay. Uh all right, let's get back to it. Uh number nine. Yeah. One spot a rider should pull over and take a photo.

SPEAKER_00 46:27

Oh, uh. There is a uh trying to think how to describe it. We don't have names for our different pull-offs, so it's hard to do that. It's time to name that. No, it's time to put names on them. I keep telling our staff we need to do that. Um, but there's one overlook where you can see the cathedral spires, black elk peak, um, and it's set back a little bit, so it fits nicely in a picture. Um, but that one along Needles, Needles Highway is spectacular. I think everyone should stop there and just kind of take it in.

SPEAKER_02 46:55

Okay, now for the hardest question of them all. Number 10. Describe the rally week in the park in one word.

SPEAKER_00 47:08

Festive.

SPEAKER_02 47:10

Festive. Okay, yeah, I guess I could see that. I was expecting more like chaotic and or nightmarish or something like that. Oh, man.

SPEAKER_00 47:21

Overall, I like it, so I didn't want to use the negative word.

SPEAKER_02 47:23

No, I understand. I get it, I get it. All right, Aaron. Listen, thank you very much. I really, really appreciate you coming on the show and telling us all about the Custer State Park and everything that riders could see while they're up there at the rally. Um, don't go anywhere. I want to talk to you when we're done, but thank you very much for being on the show. Greatly appreciated.

SPEAKER_00 47:41

Okay, you're welcome. I was glad to share.

SPEAKER_02 47:47

Hey, thanks for joining me and Aaron here in the Beachwin Cafe, where he told us about Custer State Park and the many wonderful roads and amenities you will find there. Hey, you can learn more about the park by getting on over to I'm gonna read this out so you're gonna have to listen. This is www.gfp.sd.gov slash parks slash detail slash custer dash state dash park. The link will also be in the show notes to save your brain a little pain, and of course it'll be on the motorcycle man website at motomenpc.com. Hey, don't forget to get on over to the Ride with Ted YouTube channel and watch some of the many videos I have there, and if you'd also please like and subscribe. That would be a tremendous help to the channel, and of course, to the podcast. Hey, get your copy of my book, The Roast Most Traveled, now direct from me on the Motorcycle Men website and save nearly eight bucks. Of course, you can still get it on Amazon and you can still get it from Audible if you want the audiobook. But if you get it from me, I'll sign it for me. Hey, the Motorcycle Podcasters Challenge is halfway over. We are that's right, we're halfway through the whole challenge now. We're getting ready to conclude week five. So, follow up. Go to motopodchallenge.com. You can learn more about the challenge, and maybe you can get involved next year, right? Uh, it's really going really well, and we have some great competition happen. People are having a blast. All right, kids, so check that out. Hey, for the rest of the motorcycle men team, thank you for listening. And remember, kids, we say stupid crap, so you don't have to ride safely.