Episode 469 - What is it about Old Harley's?

Hello boys and girls, 

Rolling into another round at the fictitious V‑Twin Café in beautiful Cranford, New Jersey, the whole crew — me, Tim, Chris, and Justin — pulled our stools up to the counter for a conversation that felt like slipping into a well‑worn leather jacket. Today we dove into the timeless pull of old Harley‑Davidsons: the Springers that still turn heads, the Sportsters that refuse to die, the Dynas that defined a generation, and all the other machines that made Milwaukee iron what it is.

We weren’t alone at the counter, either. Joining us was Dave Ackerman, the man behind Tobacco Motorwear, bringing his own brand of moto wisdom, denim toughness, and love for the classics.

So grab a coffee, settle in, and let’s talk about why these old Harleys still get under our skin and stay there. This is the Motorcycle Men Podcast — and the Cafe' is officially open.

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Ride Safe and remember....    

.... We say stupid crap so you don't have to.

Transcript

SPEAKER_06 0:32

Hello, boys and girls, and welcome to the Motorcycle Men podcast. This is episode Embrace yourself 469. Yeah, we're here in the V Twin Cafe, as always, in sunny downtown Cranford, New Jersey, but we're really not. We are kind of sort of maybe some something. Um, and uh I am Ted, your host, as always. And also, as we all we always have here in the corner booth, we got uh Tim Buck2 joining us. And uh Chris is gonna be here shortly. Momentarily, he will be here. Uh of course we got Justin Brown, as always.

SPEAKER_00 1:12

Shut the fuck up!

SPEAKER_06 1:18

And and joining us for a long time this has been a long time, Dave. But uh, we got our good friend from Tobacco Motorware, uh Dave Ackerman's joining us today. Yeah, so we're gonna we're giving Dave the Cha-Ching sound for his sound.

SPEAKER_03 1:35

Cha-ching. There we go.

SPEAKER_06 1:36

There we go. You know, I I could give him the squeaky toy.

SPEAKER_03 1:39

I no, I can watch the I think you should give him a zipper to zip out for the pants.

unknown 1:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:43

Oh, I don't have a zipper sound.

SPEAKER_06 1:45

I'm gonna have to get a zipper sound for Dave. That's all right. Dave, how you doing, bro?

SPEAKER_04 1:51

Dude, I'm doing good. You know, um, it never rains, but it pours, man.

SPEAKER_06 1:56

I uh Oh, we're gonna get into that real quick.

SPEAKER_04 1:59

Yeah, yeah. Oh, man.

SPEAKER_06 2:01

But how's everybody else been doing? Everybody doing Tim's doing good. Uh good. Justin's well, right? Yeah, we're getting there, yeah. Yeah, good, good, good, good. Everybody riding? I know Dave, you're riding.

SPEAKER_03 2:12

Yep.

SPEAKER_06 2:12

Yep. Damn.

SPEAKER_03 2:14

You only can ride one at a time, Dave. You can't keep buying them and then buy them.

SPEAKER_06 2:21

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:22

We're gonna tell we're gonna talk about seeing he's gonna keep one at work and ride a different one back and forth, and he's never gonna ride the same one.

SPEAKER_01 2:29

Well, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:33

We all have the same disease. I know. It's just mine's like rapid onset, sorry.

SPEAKER_06 2:42

Well, before we get into that, let me let me break down some of that. I'm gonna just let me break down some of the things that have been going on. I had an interview with Jerry McClanahan, uh, author of the Easy66 Guide for Travelers. So if you're looking to do some traveling on Route 66, uh Jerry created this guide, and he's now on the sixth edition, that details every aspect of Route 66 from beginning to end, no matter which direction you're gonna travel it or how much of you travel it, the Route 66 Easy Guide for Travelers. Route 66 is awesome, and that's available. So anyway, so I interviewed him, and uh coming up next week, uh I have an interview I did with the cast from Susie the Cycle Witch. It's a rock opera, and uh they have uh their videos are on YouTube right now. So, but I had uh an interview with the uh cast and crew of that. So that's gonna be up next week uh for you to listen to it. That'd be great. Uh aside from that, we're gonna get into we'll do the usual Bendit stuff later. But uh right now, so Dave and I have been having frequent conversations lately. And it all started with a text that I got from Dave about what, about three weeks ago, you think, maybe? And the text simply said about a month ago. Yeah, maybe the text simply said, What do you think of Softails? And from there, it well, it cascaded. Uh Dave, why don't you expand on that?

SPEAKER_04 4:11

Yeah, man. I uh I'd been, I mean, that that's a loaded question. I think you you spotted it immediately as like this guy's in the market because I had been I've been riding my my two bikes for a while, and uh had just been feeling like I needed something fresh to kind of make sure to you know that I was getting out. I'm a dad, you know. A lot of people probably they hear me talk on your podcast, they'd be like, How can he be allowed around children? But I actually have five kids.

SPEAKER_06 4:53

And um Well you by the way, you gotta stop, man. You're done.

SPEAKER_04 4:57

You're done.

SPEAKER_06 4:58

Motorcycles and no no kids, you're done.

SPEAKER_04 5:05

So so anyway, it's funny because the parallels are actually staggering. Um but yeah, man, I was I was looking at everybody was talking and and is always talking about dinas. And I had been looking for a long time at Dinah's, and um, and I'd been telling different guys and different friends that I I need to find a new bike to get excited about. And just in kind of the random course of conversations with different friends of mine, a friend sent me a picture of his friend's garage garage. He's in Pasadena MC, which is like I want to say the second or third oldest motorcycle club, AMA motorcycle club that's still going.

SPEAKER_01 6:00

Wow.

SPEAKER_04 6:00

And he sent me the garage, a garage pic of his friend's um stable, basically, and it was all springers. Nice.

unknown 6:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 6:12

Springer front end. And every motorcycle show I go to or have been to, or anybody's been to, um, you know, there's a lot of really cool bikes that use that springer front end. Well, I'm not a Harmony historian, but I had always thought that that was off of, you know, 1930s or 40s. Harley, they that they were hard to come by, and and and you couldn't forget those. And then like last year I shot with somebody who had one, and and I'm like, dude, so did you build this? And he's no like this is this is a factory bike. No, wait a minute. And then I see this picture of all the springers, and I just go, man, I I think I want to look at Springers, and so I started searching on Facebook Marketplace, and Springers I did fine, said.

SPEAKER_07 7:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 7:11

Um, and so uh yeah, I I honed in on a bike, and you know, and I learned more about it, and I learned about uh Harley kind of in the 80s bringing him back this analog Springer mechanical technology, um, and uh impairing it on the soft tail chassis. And you know, I like who do I know that can can give me a take on riding a soft tail? And that's when I texted you and the shenanigans ensued shortly after.

SPEAKER_02 7:47

Shenanigans indeed.

SPEAKER_06 7:50

They've proceeded to send me pictures of bikes left and right. Yeah. Springer that, spranger that, different soft tails. Because right now you have a sportster.

SPEAKER_04 8:02

I have a yeah, I have an uh a roadster, right? So um yeah, uh all my bikes are old. 2007, and then I have the record-breaking flag pulling bike from when we we pulled the biggest flag ever pulled behind the motorcycle, right? And that's a road king, and so I had like the big bike, and I had and not the biggest bike, but the road king, and I had the little bike in the Sportshirt 1200. And like I said, I've ridden them for a while and probably owed them more maintenance than they've gotten over the years and stuff like that, but it was just like the shine had kind of quite literally come off of them a little bit. Yeah, and you know, there's some maintenance that I need to do, but you hate to tear into your daily.

SPEAKER_02 8:57

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, right?

SPEAKER_04 8:59

Yeah, you don't want to be bikeless, they don't want to be bikeless, and so I was like, what do I do here? And then and and that sent me on the search, and then the search led me to the Harley crossbone. So, you know, to not get too much into the history of every Springer and just barf it all out, um, in the 90s, Harley released uh a little known um blacked-out uh springer called The Bad Boy, and it didn't do very well, and I actually in my in the course of my search found like old motorcycle.com posts and reviews of like the bad boy when it was new, and all the comments just like not a no chrome on it, come on, you know, and just it was so making fun of this blacked out uh custom soft tail, right? And it's all and the springer front end, and just it just didn't hit. And um, and I feel like they uh you know they they kind of turned a corner on it, and they just did other springers on the soft tail, and then at the very end of the run of these more modern springers, um they rolled out with the crossbones, which is kind of like they did the night train, uh, the night strength the crossbones and and maybe maybe one other dark custom line kind of thing.

SPEAKER_06 10:39

And uh that was like that was like 207, 2017, wasn't it?

SPEAKER_04 10:44

No, that was two they rolled it out in 2008. That's when they rolled out the crossbones, and they and they may have rolled out the other ones.

SPEAKER_02 10:53

I think they went till like 2012.

SPEAKER_06 10:56

Oh, see, I thought I thought they went I thought they went further than that.

SPEAKER_04 11:01

No, so they they went till 2011. And so, and it was kind of on the tail end of the big fat tire custom scene, and and you know, uh, and when I when I got it, I felt like you know, to some people at the time, I think it was just kind of like, what is this bike? It's kind of it's very different. Um, and kind of it has like pinstriping on it, kind of um, you know, it's it's and it's got a springer seat, like a tractor seat. And it's just a different bike, and that's you know, that's I showed it to a buddy, hey, what do you think of this? Because that's a Dave bike for sure, like all my bikes, red rims and green army paint, and just you know, and it's like you can't just buy a black bike.

SPEAKER_06 11:57

According to this, the last year they ran the Springer was in 2009. They ran it from it, they ran it from 88 to 2009.

SPEAKER_04 12:08

No, look up, look up crossbones, because I Ted, I did my research.

SPEAKER_02 12:14

They didn't they definitely they definitely yeah, I was thinking that they ran it till 2012, but if it was 2018.

SPEAKER_04 12:26

And they did, I think they did a CBO, yeah, in that might have come out in 2012, or was that 2011 too?

SPEAKER_06 12:36

No, this is uh others suggested there was there was a brief crossover into 2012. So okay, yeah, and they used the twin cam 96.

SPEAKER_04 12:46

Yep, yeah, yeah, and so um, you know, for me, obviously, like you love your new bike, and so I learned everything I could about it, jumped into it, and and what people love about this bike, if you're in the market listener, what people love about this bike is you get the springer and the tractor seat and this cool old school custom styling, but you still get that 96 cubic inch, it's a six speed, and so that's cool. You get some of the you you get to ride a more modern, it's injected, so you get a ride a more modern bike without some of the maintenance kind of reliability, yeah, yeah, exactly. And so, um, you know, there's a little community around these these springers, and specifically the crossbones, and the problem is I may call it a problem, is so I get the crossbone, and I drive it's in Reno, and I got a and it just you know how the bike chooses you sometimes, yeah, yeah, yeah. It just felt like there's a guy out not even in Reno, but out there in Nevada, and and it's just like he's not gonna find a buyer, he's not gonna find a buyer in Reno, and I message him and I he's like, Yeah, people have asked about it and said they'd come and get it, but then they just don't. And so I go, Well, listen, I know the guys at Reno Harley, take it down there and have them look at it and call me. And so the seller took it down there, and my buddies uh who runs the sales floor had his mechanics look at it, and they go, Yeah, this is a clean bike, you know, very little to do on it. Um, and you know, come grab it. So I I wired the guy some money and bought the bike, sight unseen, and um, and then drove out a couple like a week or so later, and did like the whole trip in one day. Just eight hours there, picked it up, was in Reno for less than an hour, which some people would say is too long. I don't know.

SPEAKER_06 15:11

But um wait, so wait, did you you drove out and then trailered it back?

SPEAKER_04 15:20

I drove out, they helped me load it into the back of a truck, and then I drove back in the back of the truck with it in the back of the truck.

SPEAKER_06 15:30

Wow, well, why uh why wouldn't you like kind of like get you know somebody drive you out there and then ride it back?

SPEAKER_04 15:37

I don't have any friends, Ted.

SPEAKER_06 15:40

Come on, you're Dave Ackerman, tobacco motorwear.

SPEAKER_04 15:44

He'd be Dave Ackerman.

SPEAKER_06 15:46

He'd be Dave Ackerman. You uh you you you know you have friends.

SPEAKER_04 15:50

You could I do it the Dave way, Ted. I do it the gave way. I could I was like, I could go out there with my everything I own is old. So I'm getting like 13 miles to the gallon, gases through the roof, and I'm like, okay, I think I can roll this uh up real nice, and and so I I rent the uh a truck, and I'm like, I only want this rental for one day. So I slammed it out. Oh I hit some some monster that sponsored us, thanks, monster, and uh and I slammed it out in in one day, dude. And I was loopy by the end.

SPEAKER_06 16:35

I was I can imagine, yeah. How how long is of a drive that is that?

SPEAKER_04 16:40

16 hours, 16 hours just on the road.

SPEAKER_06 16:44

Wow.

SPEAKER_04 16:44

So I left at 9 a.m. from the dealership, right? And uh or from the rental place from Enterprise, and got there, I want to say at like 5. Uh, and then I was then I got home at like 3 a.m. or something like that.

SPEAKER_02 17:08

Because I had to stop eventually to that's gotta be what, like 450, 500 miles each way, something like that.

SPEAKER_04 17:15

Yeah, mileage was included in the rental, bud. Damn, dude. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I just I just was like, I know I'm gonna, you know, I I I know I just got now. I would have liked uh, I should have tried to find somebody, but I didn't want it, uh, you know, I get it on a Tuesday, and I didn't want to weave it and and impose on my friends down in the relationship for that long, and I was excited to get it, and so I bring it home, I get it down, I st I I start riding it, and I just I think I hit that. We've been talking a lot, and I just I really like the ride, like the ride quality is really good.

SPEAKER_06 17:58

I told you the soft tail wouldn't treat you good bad, right?

SPEAKER_04 18:01

Yeah, yeah, and you you were right about that. And the soft tail, I mean, I think to all the people, and you know, there's a lot of good rear suspended bikes and stuff, but like there's a reason why you know Harley stuck with the softtail platform over the Dinah platform when they decided to come out with the you know, the lowrider ST and stuff like that. It's it's a really good platform, and I didn't ever know anything about it until you started telling me about it and started looking into it more. And I go, you know, this is it's just a really good bike for my kind of riding. Uh, I'm I'm not probably at my age gonna learn to do wheelies through parking lots and stuff like that. Maybe. But you know, yeah, but like I just thought it looked so cool. But the problem was, anytime I got on Facebook, I'm getting notifications that there's another sad, lonely springer out there looking for a home.

SPEAKER_06 19:10

And uh my bleeding heart just uh so you you did text me and just say I you you did I think your exact words were I have a problem. Oh, like what did you do?

SPEAKER_04 19:26

Yeah, that's what you said. What are you doing? Yeah, and uh just take you like the clenched teeth emoji.

SPEAKER_06 19:34

And you start, I mean you start sending me all these pictures of all these bikes. Yeah, yeah. Your exact words, I'm in big trouble.

SPEAKER_04 19:42

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was and it was it was kind of secret. You were the first to know. So I I had in this window of time between like buying, I think I I had bought but not picked up the crossbones when I went to Daytona. Yeah and so I'm in Daytona, and so it's a new territory for old Facebook marketplace.

SPEAKER_06 20:12

I mean you see you see where this is going, right?

SPEAKER_04 20:15

Yeah, so the same, but the same parameters, you know. So Springer's because I'm in the hotel room, and my my uh I had rented a bike, and when I got there, um the guy had said it had a sissy bar, and I was picking it up from the airport, and there the the sissy bar was not on the bike, nor do I think it he's like, oh yeah, my I think we were talking about my other one. Because it was like an iron 883 that he'd chopped down, and I was like, Well, I have luggage, I there's nowhere to put it. How am I getting so I I didn't have a bike for Dayton? I had planned on having a bike, and and now I didn't have a bike. It was like, well, should I just buy a bike?

SPEAKER_06 21:03

And well, before you go any further, uh hello, Chris.

SPEAKER_04 21:08

Hey. Hello, what up?

SPEAKER_06 21:10

Say hello to Dave.

SPEAKER_04 21:12

Hi, Chris.

unknown 21:13

Hi, Dave.

SPEAKER_04 21:15

How you doing? Well, I'm I'm doing all right, man. I'm I'm a proud new father of many motorcycles. Oh, wow. Congratulations.

SPEAKER_03 21:25

Yeah. Were they C-second?

unknown 21:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 21:30

How's your vagina after all that birth? Ripped.

SPEAKER_04 21:36

That's why they say go for a rip.

SPEAKER_06 21:40

All right. So so now you didn't you did you buy because you said you had other bikes on uh you had had them in your viewpoint. You're gonna looking at those, and you sent me the pictures of all three of them. And did did you purchase any of because they're diners, all three of them were dinos.

SPEAKER_04 21:58

Yeah, all three of them were shocked cell spring.

SPEAKER_06 22:00

Oh, they were Springers. Oh, okay. I thought you were looking at the Dina being a coming of the Dyna Boy.

SPEAKER_04 22:05

Oh, I always loved the Springers. Right. I had sent you some diners, and I think I started talking to you about diners, and I think technically I may need a diner. But that's a technicality. But like what wound up happening is like I saw this Springer in Daytona, and I was like, that is so cool. It has this really cool kind of psychedelic paint job. I think it's like a 94 and kind of stock lines and everything. And I was like, that's so cool. But I left Daytona and you know I wasn't gonna really see it. And then I get back to Utah, and there was I found one in Oregon. I'm casting this wide net to just look at all the springers.

SPEAKER_06 22:57

You can see the sickness is just all over you.

SPEAKER_04 22:59

Right, right. It's a tragic story. And uh and so there's this guy in Oregon who's got like uh 88, which is the first year of the modern springer. He and he's got it uh it's like low miles, 7,000 miles, well maintained, and he's kind of trying to flip it, and I talk to him, and and and again, if I didn't know the guys at Reno Harley, it probably wouldn't have worked out. So I took that as a sign of I'm gonna get that bike. And then this guy is up there, and I'm like, well, I'm going to the one show in Portland. If you'll bring it to Portland, put it in my booth for the one show, we'll we'll do a deal. And he's like, F it, yeah, okay. So he's like in Eugene or something. So he's gonna bring it up. And so I commit on that. So now I have two. Um, but actually, this is still before I picked up the crossbones, and I think it was just that itch of like, dang it, I want it, that didn't let me leave the buying stage because I then I saw a bike in like the Sacramento area, and my wife's like, hey, my father, that's where she's from. She's like, hey, my my dad's coming out, and I'm like, really? Oh, and so I've got my father-in-law, and I'm like, hey, you're coming out next week? He's like, yeah, and I'm like, you uh you you bring in your truck, or he's like, I might rent a car or bring a truck, and I'm like, well, hey, um could I pitch in for gas and and have you bring out this motorcycle? And he and he's like, yeah, let's do it. And so this this guy had built this 89 Springer, had kind of bobbed it out and and you know, turned it into a really cool stripped down bobber, and it's the most modified of any of the bikes. And so he takes it to my father-in-law. My father-in-law is coming doing that same drive, coming across Nevada, and he's a couple hours out, and I just think to myself, like, you know, he's gonna show up and he's gonna be a witness to this conversation. You bought another motorcycle? Uh you know, from my wife, and just and I'm gonna be like, yeah, I bought another motorcycle, and my father-in-law is gonna be like, you had me pick up a motorcycle and bring it across, you know, from California without talking to your wife about it. So, like two hours before he shows up to the house, I go, hey, I gotta tell you something. I bought another motorcycle. And then I started selling her on the idea of multiple motorcycles. So I'm like, I kept saying, I didn't say, like, you know, I didn't I don't think I said I bought another motorcycle. I just said, look, I think having multiple motorcycles is a good idea for these reasons because I don't think she knows that the other two are on the way, but um if you're gonna find out yeah, but so while we're talking, while we are talking, I got a text from the Daytona, they shipped it, and I got a text from the the shipping company with a timeline on to tell you with some timeline about delivering it tomorrow.

SPEAKER_07 26:37

Okay to your warehouse or to home?

SPEAKER_04 26:42

Uh to the warehouse, of course.

SPEAKER_03 26:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 26:49

Well, yeah, I mean keep it so yeah, nine nine to eleven tomorrow. Yep, and is that okay? Okay. Yeah, so so uh, dude, I think these are just really cool bikes, and and in looking into them, uh, you know, they're not making stringers anymore. No, no, and it and there's they because of ABS braking and it not really being able to mount up to a Springer Fork system, like uh there's no indication that they'll be bringing Springers back. So there was part of me going, you know, these are these are what maybe uh you know, some of the early model springers or some of the more collectible bikes would have been. And everybody, these are all Evo uh engines, and the Evo 2 is like, you know, if you look at the time frame, like shovel heads are are are popular, but like, you know, people love that Evo engine, and I feel like it's gonna be a collectible engine, and and so I just you know, this is how I justify it to myself. No, no, it's fine. They're gonna go up and it'll be fine, it'll be okay.

SPEAKER_02 28:15

I'll be honest, my it's my understanding that when when they decided to stop making the last springer, because the the mold that they used for those springers was the original mold.

SPEAKER_07 28:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:28

So those springers are based on those earlier 30s, 40s type springers, and it's my understanding that when they stopped uh making them that they actually destroyed the mold, so they can't even make that origin. I mean, obviously they have enough to to do it, but my point is is they basically got rid of that.

SPEAKER_06 28:52

So when you say they destroyed the mold, mold for what?

SPEAKER_04 28:56

The cast or the uh so it's for the springer front end, yeah, yeah. And I don't know. I I I've heard that they they sold the tooling. Um I I I'm not sure, but I I think due to regulations and just safety expectations, because like I'll tell you, like, I'm using the rear brake way more than I ever have.

SPEAKER_01 29:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 29:27

And uh the front brake, for whatever reason, just the ride it takes it, it doesn't I don't even want to say it takes getting used to. There are pros and cons with how you ride the thing, but one of the things you have to do is rear brake a lot more.

SPEAKER_02 29:47

Well, the thing that everybody's used to is that in in a telescoping front end, which is like your traditional front end, is it has springs in it, but the the springing action is slowed down uh or restricted, cushioned, however you want to put it, by the fluid that's in there. So the thicker the fluid is, the less bounce uh you get um or continuous bounce that you get. It's not gonna compress as hard, uh it's not gonna spring back as hard, it's not gonna continue to bounce uh because it's gonna move through that fluid, whereas on a springer front end, you basically just have springs and whatever causing that there's a little you got springs and linkage, that pretty much does the work.

SPEAKER_04 30:45

Yeah, there's a little dampener on the front of the Harley patented spring, which one of the bikes it's a springer, but somebody had taken the oh the the Harley Springer off, that modified one, and then the guy bought like a lowbrow custom springer front end that doesn't have the dampener on it. So I get to feel the difference between the Harley dampened action, which is softer, than the then the lowbrow, which has no no uh no little dampener cylinder. I don't know what you'd call it on the front. I don't like me doing that motion uh and see it happening. But um, but yeah, like it it is there's there's a few differences. Like you don't really get when you break with a hydraulic front suspension, if you break, you get a a forward rocking kind of you can really compress the front spring just from breaking, and you don't get that as much uh with the springer front end, and and it actually gives it a little bit of a there's a little bit of a confidence. So some people say it's a heavy front end, and you know, I've ridden, I've been riding Road Kings, so like I don't know if I'm feeling any different. So yeah, this front end is unwieldy. I don't know, it's fine, but I do feel like I'm I don't feel like a whoa, I'm going somewhere as I go into a corner on the crossbones. It just feels like I'm I'm maintaining you don't feel like that vertigo of like okay, I'm like it's not dive bombing on you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which is just a matter of like just getting used to that, and and but there is a little bit of a uh a confident um I I mean I think it I think it's a pretty good ride, actually. And then, you know, it's got the rear suspension, and then the crossbones has the spring uh tractor seat, and so it's it's just a pretty pretty nice little ride, dude. But it's been uh it's been a fun foray into buying bikes unseen because I bought four of them unseen.

SPEAKER_06 33:10

So I've just got to like so how many so how many springers do you have now? Four. You got four springers now.

SPEAKER_04 33:17

Four springers, and then I still have the sporty and the uh and and the road team that are that are all of them are running, and and I just took the so I have two springers that have shown up, right, including the one I went and got.

SPEAKER_01 33:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 33:34

And and I I just took um to Cooney's Customs here in Salt Lake area, I just took the other Springer over because everything's being bought near sea level, and then we're riding up in the mountains, and so these carburetors all need to get kind of tuned.

SPEAKER_01 33:52

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 33:54

Yeah, so now I'm in that process. And I don't know, man. Like some nights I wake up and worry uh that I'm gonna really regret this, and then some days I wake up and I'm back on face market, Facebook Marketplace, looking at Springers.

SPEAKER_03 34:12

So what's what's your next mic?

SPEAKER_06 34:14

He's gonna go Dinah, I guarantee you.

SPEAKER_03 34:16

I went out with Soft Tail.

SPEAKER_04 34:20

Well, there is this, I don't know, you like I say, Dave bikes. So I don't know what's what got into me, but Springers and anything with flames. So like I'm seeing all these old dinas, softtails with these beautiful, like the you know, the old school flames job that were like free tone, starting with yellow and faded out in purple. And so I'm seeing these bikes, and I'm like, how is that staying up so long? But in in the world we're living in, you know, the buyer for like I think everybody sees a cool paint job and goes, oh, that's it's kind of like a springer, where it's like, oh, that's definitely cool. I don't know if I could ride it to bike night. But like I already established I don't have any friends to impress, so I just so there's a there's a pretty raked-out chopper that I was looking at.

unknown 35:26

Oh god.

SPEAKER_04 35:29

I don't know, this if I get it, you'll be the first one.

SPEAKER_06 35:32

You know what? I know it, Chris. You know what he I know what he needs, Chris. Yeah, you think you and you might agree. He needs a sugar bear.

SPEAKER_03 35:39

Oh, yes. He needs a sugar bear. Oh, yeah, I guess sugar bear.

SPEAKER_04 35:43

What's a sugar bear?

SPEAKER_06 35:44

Oh shit.

SPEAKER_04 35:47

I think I have, but only in very like very much in passing. Show him the sugar sugar bear, Cad.

SPEAKER_03 35:56

Come on.

SPEAKER_06 35:56

Oh, he needs a sugar bear. That's I know that for damn sure now.

unknown 36:00

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_06 36:01

Uh yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 36:02

Sugar bear?

SPEAKER_06 36:04

All right, here we go. Let me share the screen. No one.

SPEAKER_04 36:06

Is this like uh Harley sugar bear? Well, it's it's it's a it's a it's Well, sugar bear was a builder, too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yay, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 36:17

That's a sugar bear front end.

SPEAKER_04 36:19

Right.

SPEAKER_06 36:20

And he lives, and he lives literally about five miles from uh Sturgis. And that's where his shop is. And we're talking about one of our one of our good friends at a podcast, um uh uh Larry Marshall, uh, he's good friends with him. Yeah, so uh yeah, we we gotta hook you up.

SPEAKER_04 36:48

Maybe this one that I've been looking at, there's no flames on it, though. You gotta find me one with flames.

SPEAKER_06 36:54

Well, flames, that's your job. You gotta do that yourself. You gotta get the bike and do the sugar bear front end.

SPEAKER_04 37:00

And so I I hope, you know, like I I think there's in doing all this too, part of it is an experiment in like what can you get out there, right? And and there's this there's this feeling that like, you know, even Harley, like they're they've announced their six thousand dollar uh motor starter motorcycle that they're gonna roll out with. And I've seen a lot of mixed reviews. I've seen a lot of people kind of panning the idea before it's even come to fruition. And I I'm going, you know, I think a lot of people's I think the starter Harley is an old Harley.

SPEAKER_06 37:46

Yeah, absolutely. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_04 37:48

It's not there's not a model that you need. I mean, and it partly I feel like the Sportster, which makes a lot of sense as a starter Harley, had been kind of like it when because they stopped making that, then there's a diminishing supply of these good starter Harleys uh that are available for cheap. Because you could get a sportster for two or three or four thousand bucks, right? And and probably a decent one, right? And so I kind of feel like you know what I'm doing in finding these Facebook marketplace finds, buying them site unseen, and just uh kind of playing with them, and I'll be, you know, I'll be on my channels and uh tobacco motorware, uh Tobacco Motorware Co. on Instagram and Tobacco MC on YouTube. And and you'll see these bikes and and me going through them, and my my sentiment is kind of and it doesn't have to be a Harley, but just just buy a used bike. Start off with a used bike. And and and if and especially with people's finances being what they are, uh obviously I'm a a devotee to motorcycles. I think you should have a motorcycle. You people should get into it, it should be a growing thing, not a shrinking thing. But I think part of it is people worry about, well, it's expensive to get into. And I kind of want to say, hey, you can get a really cool bike without spending, you know,$25,000 or even$15,000 or whatever the the entry level Harley is gonna be.

SPEAKER_07 39:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 39:33

I think right now what we need to do for Dave. I think we all need to go on this campaign to uh continuously send Dave uh listings for dinos. Because you know, we all know, and you might as well just admit it right now, Dave, to yourself and to everyone that your next bike is gonna be a dyno.

SPEAKER_04 39:54

I mean, it very well could be.

SPEAKER_06 39:56

You know.

SPEAKER_04 39:57

Let me ask you guys this. Should I be a dynam bro with a flamed-out diner?

SPEAKER_06 40:03

You certainly would be.

SPEAKER_04 40:05

I don't think I could be. Why? I think you gotta have a black dyno. It's gotta be black.

SPEAKER_06 40:11

A black and mold. A black dyno. Well, a black dyno with flames. What's wrong with that?

SPEAKER_03 40:17

You're Gabe Ackerman. You can do whatever you want.

SPEAKER_06 40:19

You can do whatever you want, man.

SPEAKER_04 40:22

I do think it's it's kind of like I wasn't Dave Ackerman until I bought four springers. Now I'm Dave Ackerman.

SPEAKER_06 40:30

Now you still are so I'm attended. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_02 40:34

So I got he gets a fucking he gets a dial and he's gonna be going through a Dave Force.

SPEAKER_06 40:41

Well, it's Dave explained to me. I Dave did explain to me though. He explained to me, I says, you know, he's looking at all these bikes. I said, Where are you keeping these things? Right? And he says, certainly the wife must know. And he says, Well, I have a warehouse that she never goes to.

SPEAKER_04 40:57

All right, so have you guys toured the warehouse?

SPEAKER_06 41:00

No, no, no. Of course, we've never been there.

SPEAKER_04 41:01

But in no condition, we've never done this before. It's in no condition to show off, but because you know, uh, and there's no video, so for your audio listeners, I'll do my best to narrate. So you come in the door, and we have this kind of showroom. You've probably seen me, maybe, maybe you've seen me do videos. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The checkerboard wall, right? Cool, and the dog tags of all of our original customers from our first two Kickstarters. They have their own dog tag, and we have their name on our wall. Oh, wow, that's deep. Got our torque helmet wall, right? Supporter of Torque helmets, and then uh my messy workstation over here. Um, and then, yeah, go into here. We got Dave's RV in one side.

SPEAKER_06 41:51

Dave's RV? I forgot about Dave's RV.

SPEAKER_04 41:55

Yeah, that's where I fell from. Right there. I had my one, my foot in that window. So for the listening public, I put I was on the roof of my RV and getting off of it onto a six-foot ladder, so I had to step down, and I had my foot in the upper above cab window, and then when I hit the ladder, it twisted and turned, and I wound up breaking my hip from the so no good. So here yeah, here are the uh the road king and the the sporty over here, and we got like the bathrooms and an editing bay over there, and then there's the ah there she is. There it is.

SPEAKER_06 42:41

Wow Do you give your bikes names?

SPEAKER_04 42:44

Yes, you do I do.

SPEAKER_06 42:47

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 42:48

This the blue, this the crossbones is most crossbones were black. Mine is dark blue pearl, and so I call it the blue boner.

SPEAKER_06 43:04

Yes. Alright, perfect.

SPEAKER_04 43:08

Yeah, yeah, I have I have certain names, but then we have these backdrops, right? And so, like for for shooting different stuff, and then over here, um, I'm I we I've I've got these backdrops for the listening public that are like basically pallet wood that we've painted, and you know, it for the for the fashion side of things, they make nice shoot for nice shooting. What's this is our original show bike, which is a Yamaha uh thumper. It's a Yamaha Yamaha XT six hundred, six hundred XT. And so it's kind of uh set up like that, and it's kind of our show bike. And then this is the these are the stacks. So we go up. It's all the all when you get in gateway. This is where it starts.

SPEAKER_06 44:01

This is where it all happens. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 44:03

And then we have like a little like photo backdrop here, too. So it's just, I mean, it's just a working area, but you can see how much room I have. I have tons of room.

SPEAKER_06 44:14

You have lots of room for more motorcycles.

SPEAKER_04 44:17

Lots of room for motorcycles. And I just anticipate that day. I got motorcycle parts up on the shelf. I just anticipate that day when my wife comes over and she goes, wait, what are all these motorcycles? And I'm like, I told you about that. We talked about it. And you were going on your trip. And so we talked about it. Like, yeah, I guess.

SPEAKER_06 44:43

So you better start fabricating those stories before when those other bikes show up.

SPEAKER_04 44:48

Yeah, I may not be a bike fabricator, but I uh completely build the narrative.

SPEAKER_06 44:56

So I have uh I have I have a couple things there. The articles. Um and and I I dug these up in in your honor, Dave. And it's this first article, and this comes from the Harley Davidson Forums, and this one's the eight best Harley Davidson motorcycles ever. So we'll see how that plays out. Uh we're gonna we're gonna go review that right now.

SPEAKER_01 45:19

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_06 45:20

Yeah. Yeah, all right. Get this guy. There we go.

SPEAKER_04 45:26

The eight best Harleys ever.

SPEAKER_06 45:28

Hell ever. So the first one, and you had this is one you expressed interest in. You like the Harley Davidson Lowrider, 2020 to present. Yep. All right, there's that one. And the Harley Davidson Street Glide. They say 2017 to 2023. I don't understand how that works. I thought the street glide was around longer than that. Uh just.

SPEAKER_02 45:47

No, no, no. It is.

SPEAKER_03 45:48

I think that's the best version of it. Right.

SPEAKER_04 45:51

They're saying that generation, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 45:53

Yeah. Uh the Milwaukee 8 version, okay? The Road King. 20 2007 to 2013 refinement years. What do they mean by the refinement years? Twin Cam 96 models, okay.

SPEAKER_04 46:06

Yeah, yeah. So it's probably that the early the Road Kings from the Twin Cam era and probably the the early twin cams were not as good.

SPEAKER_00 46:17

No, I know the 88s.

SPEAKER_04 46:18

After 2007, they cleaned up the the problems. You we probably won't have a uh uh early twin cam in this list because they had these problems. Yeah. What year is yours? Mine? Mine is an early one. I think it got the service done. They had they had a tensioner problem where it's a plastic tensioner shoe.

SPEAKER_06 46:41

We all know about that.

SPEAKER_02 46:43

I was gonna say we all know that.

SPEAKER_06 46:49

Vaguely. It vaguely passes my mind. I've heard about it. You know, it may have happened, I don't know. It may, you know, who knows? You know, things like that. Um, but you know what's interesting though? Harley no longer makes this road king anymore. The only one they provide now is the roadking special. Yeah, it's interesting. Uh they they look at look at that, the Harley Davidson Dino Superglide. Dave. Of course, of course. You know, that's Dave's next bike right there.

SPEAKER_04 47:19

That one, though. So that long thing, so that one actually is uh twin cam. So I was wrong.

SPEAKER_06 47:25

That's a 2003 model. Yeah, superglide. Yeah, sir.

SPEAKER_04 47:29

Okay, the next one. Who knows?

SPEAKER_06 47:33

It's your next one.

SPEAKER_04 47:34

You don't know, and the evolution engine.

SPEAKER_06 47:37

See, now I don't see this best motorcycle. This is the engine. Uh I mean, I'll agree with this. The evolution the Evo engine was like the biggest engine ever.

SPEAKER_04 47:45

All Evo's from 84 to 99 and like anything from that era. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 47:51

Yeah, you can't kill an Evo. There's just no way. They're just great engines. And uh they got the Harley Davidson Shovel Head from 78 to 84, the late shovel head years. Anybody agree with that?

SPEAKER_04 48:03

That was the the was that not the AMA years?

SPEAKER_02 48:06

AMF AMF years. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 48:08

AMF. Yeah, it looks like it wants to be a road king.

SPEAKER_04 48:13

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_06 48:14

Yeah. Um it looks clunky though, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_04 48:18

Yeah, I don't I don't know. I know shovels have become a lot more collectible as as the supply of pan heads and knuckles run out. Um, but I don't know if that's because it's old or because it's good.

SPEAKER_06 48:34

It could be both, actually.

SPEAKER_02 48:38

Is that like at one you know, part of the reason that bikes it's it's weird. So like in the beginning it was like when the panheads came out and you could get a knucklehead for next to nothing because it was at that point it was like a you know, like an old motorcycle. Yeah you know what I mean, and then all of a sudden it's like then all of a sudden they became popular and they become expensive, so then like the shovel heads out, so you can get a pan head for you know uh same thing, you know, next to nothing. And so it's this is like what ends up happening, you know what I mean? So it's like then you could get shovel heads, and and then as these guys take these bikes and build cool shit with them, people just look at it like, well, that's what they used, so that's what I should get, versus it's like, well, he used that because he could get it for 500 bucks, you know what I mean? Like he he didn't go out and spend fucking 10 grand on that motor because there was something special about that motor, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_04 49:41

Well, and and you see groups of guys, cool looking dudes, uh like Jason Momoa and other people riding around on these bikes, and you go, they've been meticulously rebuilt in most cases. Right. Or these guys are just like, I'm a hundred percent okay, let's break it down in the middle of New Mexico and just having to try to fix this thing, and it's all part of the adventure. So, like, which I get, like, I mean, there is probably kind of like a a return to you know the DIY, you know, I know how to work on this bike, and that that gives me a right to ride that that you have to earn, you know. Yep.

SPEAKER_06 50:28

Anyway, you got the knucklehead up here, 36 to 47. I mean, knuckles are badass. I like knuckles, everybody loves knuckles, but you know, you're not gonna find you're not gonna find a knuckle with you know that's affordable, you know, for you and I. No, not at all.

SPEAKER_04 50:43

But and you can see on that bike, if you go back real quick, you can see the lines that like because that's this that was the springer front end, and you can see like the crossbones borrowed that tractor seat, kind of the pogo seat, and kind of some of those elements, which you know for me is like part of the attraction to that right.

SPEAKER_06 51:07

Yeah, unfortunately, you're not gonna get that in your dyno.

SPEAKER_04 51:11

No, no, it'll be a different one, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 51:15

And then uh this other article which I found very interesting was they tend to Harley Davidson's that hold their value best. And this one I thought was great because there just might be one of your motorcycles in here, Dave.

SPEAKER_07 51:28

Really? All right, let's see. Let's go.

SPEAKER_06 51:31

Streak light special. They say this holds its value very well. And moving on, we have the fat boy.

SPEAKER_05 51:43

Come on, baby.

SPEAKER_06 51:45

Especially especially pre-2008. How about that?

SPEAKER_04 51:49

So that that one uh holds its value, I think, better than any of them, is is what I heard. Is that that fat boys just keep their value?

SPEAKER_06 52:03

You can buy them and yeah, well Chris, yours is yours is a 2002, correct?

SPEAKER_05 52:07

Yes. And and by uh I'm I'm always going through Craigslist and marketplace and looking at, and fat boys do retain a very high price. Wow.

SPEAKER_06 52:16

I wonder what do you think do you think that whole Arnold Schwarzenegger terminal thing has been like, I don't know if you're gonna say 1990 when that came out and he was riding a fat boy, that was the first year it came out, and everybody lost their shit over that bike. And do you think that had plays a large part with this value retention?

SPEAKER_03 52:37

Well, I think more than so. I think people just like the bike beer.

SPEAKER_04 52:40

Yeah, well, I I think I think in in a non-direct way, I think because of that when it came out and the and and the terminator connection, and then the name sticks in everyone's head.

SPEAKER_06 52:56

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 52:57

It's just the most well-known name of a motorcycle, it's not confused with all the different glides, right? Right the fat boy, and so when when you ask anybody, even if they're not a bike guy, can you name a model of a Harley? They'll go, fat boy. And so and and I think then because of that, maybe as people go out looking for one, like my my older brother, before I ever owned a motorcycle, I remember him. He came, he lived in North Carolina for a while, and he came back. He was like, I want a Harley. I want a fat boy. That's what that's what I want. And I just it's always stuck with me that it was like, oh, fat boy, that must be cool, you know. And and so I think it just it's a good, it's good branding, I think. It's just an you're always gonna remember it.

SPEAKER_05 53:50

It's a great branding until you get into a conversation with somebody and then you say, I like fat boys. It just doesn't quite come across.

SPEAKER_06 54:01

Uh choose your words wisely.

SPEAKER_05 54:06

I gotta say, I like fat boy motorcycles.

SPEAKER_06 54:10

I gotta you might want to even even then it's suspect. You might want to say, My favorite motorcycle is a fat boy. No, that doesn't even sound right. That isn't either. No.

SPEAKER_04 54:18

That sounds better. I like I got a warehouse full of fat boys on electric.

SPEAKER_06 54:26

That could be better. Let's moving on. The Harley David with Electrical Light Classics. There we go.

SPEAKER_04 54:30

Yeah, the ultra classic. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 54:33

Yeah, I I I one time I actually wanted one of these.

SPEAKER_05 54:36

That's a big bike, man.

SPEAKER_06 54:38

It's a big bike. I wanted one of these. Tim, well, Tim, yours was an electrical light classic, wasn't it? Big big red.

SPEAKER_05 54:47

Big red. That's an 1100-pound bike.

SPEAKER_03 54:50

No shit. My knees will attest to that.

SPEAKER_04 54:54

Tim is probably might be able to pick them up for five grand on the marketplace right now.

SPEAKER_03 55:01

Yeah, they're cheap. Tim is, I think, the only guy in the world.

SPEAKER_06 55:04

Oh, Jesus. Yeah. I think Tim is the only guy in the world that probably almost came close to rolling this bike over.

SPEAKER_02 55:10

Oh. You know what's crazy too? People will go out and spend, you know, fucking$13,000,$15,000 on like an older street glide when you can spend$8,000 on a newer Ultra Classic and take the fucking Tor Pack off. You know what I mean? It's like it's it's the same shit.

SPEAKER_04 55:36

Yeah. And then if you if you really don't want it, you can sell the Tor Pack for$500.

SPEAKER_03 55:43

Which right.

SPEAKER_06 55:44

Harlan Davidson Lowrider S. There's the other one that Dave had mentioned it was uh something in your wheelhouse. Retains its value. I mean, this is a relatively new bike, yet they're saying it's gonna retain its value.

SPEAKER_05 55:58

Yeah, yeah. You know what? I I could say I've seen a decent amount of those on the road. And you know, I probably probably new riders bought that. Um I've ridden this and I didn't know.

SPEAKER_03 56:07

That would be a good starter button.

SPEAKER_04 56:09

That's basically what I mean you have you have the night share and you have the new uh Sportster S, but I feel like all the I mean the Lowrider S and the Low Rider Low Rider S T are what the Dyna Bros are buying now because you know they're they aren't making new diners, and it's just that really nice size, like middle weight, and and it just when I think when you think of a motorcycle, even if you have a a road glider, a street glide, or even if that's what you wind up wanting, when you think of motorcycle, uh you think of something more akin to that, or more akin to you know, the the soft tail stripped down, just wheels, engine, gas tank.

SPEAKER_06 56:59

Yeah, exactly. And you're probably right. The Harley FXR, early 80s, early 90s. Look at that. I mean, they say it retains its value, so I can't argue with that.

SPEAKER_02 57:11

Well, that's basically what the that's basically what the lowrider S is modeled after for argument's sake.

SPEAKER_04 57:18

Yeah, yep. And these bikes, uh these are the ones that you see going for 10 grand now. Yeah. Like clean low low miles, because I've I've looked at those, and it's tough to find an FXR that that's you know, not hovering around 10 or higher.

SPEAKER_06 57:39

So you won't be shocking for anything.

SPEAKER_02 57:41

Because like when you think about it, right? Like you were talking about this earlier, about yeah, you can go out and buy an older bike that has the springer, or if you want kind of that same aesthetic, but with like the reliability uh of push button start, six-speed transmission, you know, like some of the creature comforts of some of these new bikes. I mean, with with what they're doing now with the aesthetics of these bikes, as far as kind of hearkening back to the the bikes that you know people like take like something like this, right? Like, I mean, if you're gonna spend the money, you can basically give or take a maybe a grand or two, yeah, you can get uh a lowrider S for the same price that you'd spend an F for an FXR, and I mean performance-wise, the low rider S is gonna have everything that you want it to have. Push button start, six speed trans, you know what I'm saying? It's it's gonna have brakes that actually work, you know what I mean? You know, I mean it's gonna have I mean, sure, it's it's not an FXR, but yeah, that's the only thing that's missing, really.

SPEAKER_06 58:58

Wow. So move on to the next one. We got uh with a wide glide. See, like all this Dyna Bro stuff keeps popping up, Dave.

SPEAKER_04 59:07

Yeah, Dynas, yeah. I mean, like I said, I think one of the things that kind of threw me into the arms of uh Springer Softale was like, yeah, you look at uh a 2003 wide glide, and somebody's asking seven grand for it, and you're going like you know, um, but there is this sudden s of demand for the dynah and that stripped down look.

SPEAKER_06 59:38

Yeah. Well, you know what's funny because originally when we were talking, you were it was all soft tails, soft tails, but actually in the beginning, you were kept you were you you were you were meant talking about being a dino boy, and uh that that was your thing. And then I had mentioned to you that diners were basically just bigger sportsters. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, and then you moved into the soft tail. So um, I mean, I've ridden a few dinas, and it just you know it didn't really do anything for me, but hey. Uh the Pan America, I'm I'm they surprisingly strong resale, but except if it's a 21, 22, or early 23. Uh those first three years of the Pan America were not good years for the bike. They had they had issues. Issues, yeah. Yeah, but they're they're they're much better now. And then finally, the CVO Street Glide uh holds its resale value. I I guess it I guess it would. Yeah, no surprise there, yeah. I mean, and uh the Harley David Sportster 48. Have you ever ridden one of these, Dave? No. 48 is such a cool ass bike, man.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:55

Is the ride like significantly different? I mean, it's got the crossbones. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:02

It's a stiff ride, uh, but it's just a cool ass bike.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:06

It's a little banger, man. It's like a little uh yeah, you can just rip into the rip in and we got you know, it's got a what's I believe it's a 1.3 gallon gas tank.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:17

Yeah, it's just a little peanut. It's a little peanut. So you're not going far with it, but I've had the opportunity to ride one of these, and you want to talk about low, man. This bike sits super low. It's just got this really, really cool feel to it. Uh stiff, chill ride, man. It's a it's a great bike. That's a great bike, though. And yeah, I like these are pulling in good money too.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:40

I don't know if I know the difference between like the 48 and the iron eight eight three.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:51

Uh well, I'll just wait.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:54

It was a twelve hundred.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:55

Oh, it was a twelve hundred. It was a twelve hundred. That's enough of the difference right there. Uh yeah, it had uh it had a wider front tire. The the iron eight eight three was basically your traditional sports are aesthetically just blacked out.

unknown 1:02:14

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:14

Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:15

Whereas the 48 was designed to be like when guys started bobbing bikes back like around like wartime and well after war, but like um they were taking the wartime bikes and bobbing them. Um that was designed to kind of be like a throwback to that. So that's why like if you look the both the front and the rear fenders, it kind of has that bobbed fender, but it has the fatter tires, because originally that was something that was done on those larger bikes, but they wanted to kind of take that style and do something with it on a sports there.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:51

I mean, it it's interesting how the style kind of this this design language just keeps coming back. Um not to bring up the crossbones again, but it's got the fat front tire and clearly inspired by that same post-war era.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:10

Well, it's the same thing. So that's that big.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:12

Job on a bigger, yeah, just on a bigger frame.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:16

Well, the crossbones is more traditionally sized uh or comparable to what guys were doing with those bikes. So they would basically take so they had the WLAs, which were the bikes that they they used in the in the in the war in the military. And then basically, when these guys came back, there was like a surplus of those bikes. You could get them for like next to nothing. So guys were basically taking them and bobbing them down, and they would end up looking like the way that your crossbones looks.

SPEAKER_07 1:03:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:47

And so the the crossbones is a modern version of what guys were taking those bikes and customizing them to be.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:55

And it's this is this another example of like another way they might even bob it down farther and just put on a smaller tank and like take it to the next level?

SPEAKER_02 1:04:08

Yeah, this is like the sportster version of like what a bobber would be for uh you know, uh the same kind of concept. I mean, it got to the point where guys were basically anything that wasn't absolutely necessary, they were bobbing down. Yeah, uh from a style perspective, a weight perspective, the whole nine.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:28

Yeah. But if you wanted a uh if you if you're looking for that, a cool bike like that, like I said, the this the 48 is just it. And correct me if I'm wrong, Justin, but the iron 883 at one point was Harley Davidson's best-selling motorcycle.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:43

I mean, it was not only was it really cool uh looking, but it was at at one point it was the cheapest bike that they sold. I mean, yeah it was under it was under nine grand brand new.

SPEAKER_07 1:04:57

Yep, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:58

Uh and I mean, you know, it it had everything that you were doing to like you figure if you bought a sports there before they started blacking them out, and then you spent all that money blacking it out, you know what I mean? It's like I mean, I remember I had a 2000 sportster, and you know, you're putting bars, you're blacking everything out that you can black out. It's like you spend all this money doing that, and then here it is brand new. Yeah, you know you threw you throw exhaust on it, and you could literally ride away with it, leaving it basically leave it to weighted.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:33

So I I think this, I mean, maybe I so I got into riding pre 2008, you know, the financial crop crash then. Yeah, but um but the the cafe racer kind of like the there was when I started the company in 2014, I would say we were riding this wave of people buying cheap. Bikes, uh, Japanese bikes, old Honda, CB750s, um, you know, different different platforms, old Sportsers certainly were a good chunk of that, and turned them into cafes or barbers, and it was sort of like a a thing you could get into, and it didn't cost very much to just start taking stuff off of the bike. And I do kind of maybe it's wishful thinking. Um, I think that is where we've had like over the last few years, everything's got bags, everything's a full dresser, it's got a fairing on it. I kind of think we're due for the next generation of kind of the chopper bobber trend that comes from hey, I I I'm not gonna be able to get the new cool bike. So, you know, and that's that's kind of obviously part of what this project of me getting these older bikes is doing, is is an example of you can get a cool old bike, and maybe you can do something to it to make it your own. Um, but I I think that will ha has to happen again as we see gas prices rise, more people will want to ride, it's good financial investment. The amount of cool factor you get from a motorcycle for per dollar, you can't touch it with a car. No, no, right? Absolutely not. And so I'm I'm hopeful that we'll see a kind of a new wave of of guys finding this, whether they're in their you know, 20s or early 30s, and going like, dude, like there are all these bikes out there, and I can just take this stuff off, and uh, you know, eventually it'll circle back and people put it back on. I don't know if the bagger trend, I'm not I'm not saying baggers are going anywhere. I don't think they are uh with with the success of the bagger race series and everything like that. But I do think like the idea that you need to start with a big bike, um, or that a big bike is right for everybody, I I don't think that holds.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:23

I think the way that you I mean before before this whole story that you you know told us today, you know, like having having having the the touring bike and the sportster, uh I mean as as somebody who owns a touring bike and a sportsster, I feel like that's uh that's like something that really works for me because not that you can't take a touring bike around locally, uh, because you can, but you know, at the same time, um you know if you wanna there's certain times that having that touring bike makes a ride or a trip so much more comfortable and enjoyable. Um and then there's other times that you want that sport to just rip around on and and run around and just ha toss around and have fun, you know what I mean? So sometimes people will find and kind of split the difference and get one bike that's somewhere in the middle. A lot of people do that by either getting a dino or a soft tail, depending on you know which way they're leaning more towards. The dino leans a little bit more towards the sportster, the soft tail leans a little bit more towards the touring, or you say fuck it, and you get a road to the sportster, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_04 1:09:44

Yeah, and and I think, you know, personally I'd rather have you know the two bikes rather than having one, but you know, that's well and really like yeah, the the idea that it's so out of reach, um, you know, I I I I certainly get that as as much as Harleys can hold their value, like if I was in my twenties or early 30s starting a family, or even now, I mean there's there's a reason why I opt to, you know, one one of the videos I'll probably wind up making is for the price of one Harley, I got five. Right. That's great. Yeah. I'm certainly not advocating that course of action for everybody, but there's something to be said for you could have a tour, you could have a heavy bagger, you could have a light bagger, you could have a strip down, you could have a you could have a uh uh you know a long fork kind of raked-out chopper, and you could have a dirt bike, and you could have, you know, um for for the price of maybe one brand new uh Harley Davidson or or or big bike of any brand.

SPEAKER_06 1:11:07

You know, Dave, you might be the leading edge of this new wave that you're talking about, where people just start buying any kind of bike, smaller bike like this, like the dinosaur, the springers or whatever, and making that their starter bike. You may be the leading edge of this.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:25

There you go. I'm real I I you know I don't I think we've talked enough that you know that that's something I'd I'd like to see happen. Yeah, because I think I think there's a lot of people who would benefit from riding, a lot of a lot of men, a lot of young men who would benefit from getting on a bike. And I think the whole sports tour is a girl bike is not ever played out. Oh my gosh. But it's it's just not true. I'm not sure why not. Especially, I mean, I I I know a lot of people that really enjoy their sports sporty, and maybe I'm gonna lose a bunch of followers now, but like I I I had my brand, my crossbones that I'm so enthusiastic about, and I see my sporty sitting there, and I'm like, come here, you know. Yeah, I I go out on a ride on it, and I'm just like, shut the f up, dude. This is the funnest bike. Yeah, this bike is so fun, the sound is so good. Um, you know, and mine said 1200, and and I haven't spent a lot of time on the smaller displacement bike, but I just feel like anybody, the starter bike should be you can get into a bike. My first bike, I I think we talked about it on the first time I was on the podcast. My first bike cost 50 bucks, and then I put$300 into fixing it up, and even just for adjusted for inflation. That was a stupid cheap bike, yeah. And it and I bought it not running, and I I had somebody clean the carbs, which was the$300 I put into it. It was a Honda GL500, and I had a great time on that bike. And I just I don't think that you have to start with a Harley. I think Harley should, and I think maybe this ride campaign that you see Harley doing, yeah, might be, I mean, they're always gonna push Harley more than anything. But I've joked with some friends that the best Harley, the best entry-level Harley is a royal infield.

SPEAKER_07 1:13:39

Really?

SPEAKER_04 1:13:40

Well wow. Because Royal Infields are heritage bikes that are vintage inspired, that are inspired by the same time frame. I'll even say that there are there are there are royal infills that take style cues from every Harley, you know, era that you could ever look at. And inevitably, if somebody starts on a$4,000,$5,000 royal infill, they're inevitably gonna want to size up. And I think I I have no evidence of this, except just that my own affinity for them, they're good-looking bikes, they're they're they have a similar romance. I think the Triumph Bonneville sort of thing, too. Yeah, I think there's you know, and I think a lot of people, and I'm saying this not as this needs to be your preference, this is pure observation. I think a lot of people will wind up on Harley Davidson's, especially if the Harley Davidson crowd can get it out of its own way and not make people feel stupid. And who I didn't start on a I just told you, I don't start on a Harley, I don't know that many people who didn't start on a dirt bike or didn't start on something Japanese before they found their way to Harley.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:03

Do you think do you because you what you mentioned about like the Harley Davidson crowd, like make people feel so good? Do you think that that's as prevalent as it was? Because like to me, I feel like that definitely was something that existed years back, but I don't my own experience, I feel like that's very that that's kind of in the rear view for the most part, and I I mean that's just but that's just my own experience. Uh I'm just curious as like I mean, you know, maybe maybe you see it, or maybe you're like, you know what, maybe it is in the past. But I I do, you know, I'm just curious as your take.

SPEAKER_06 1:15:45

Well, I I think for the most part that is, but I think there still are elements of that that still exist. And you guys remember very vividly my experience with the Hooters girl on the parkway.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:00

No, tell us again. Oh, you know, you know I don't get scored on that.

SPEAKER_06 1:16:05

So uh uh well Dave doesn't know the story, so I was on my way home from work. I was on my way home from work one time. Well, Bess is back in Jersey, and I was I'm I'm on my heritage cruising down the Garden State Parkway, and coming to a section where the express lanes and irregular lanes come together, and there's like this little small median in the middle. But I get to this point and I see a bike stop there, and there's the rider next to it, and another dude on the ground looking at the bike, and I figure, well, let me do the right biker thing and pull over and see if I can help. So I pull up, and there's this girl, you know, she's standing there next to her bike, and there's this old guy bending down. I pull up, he lifts his head up, and he's and she's riding a sport bike. It was, I believe it was a Suzuki. I pull up, he lifts his head up over the seat, he looks, he goes, You're riding a Harley, you're not gonna be any good to me. So, but uh the the continuation of the story was because um me and this other guy who showed up, we helped, we fixed her bike, and uh old cranky dude drove off. But uh she worked the girl worked at Hooters, and she said, uh we'll give you free lunch because you fix my bike. So the ongoing the ongoing tease that I get from my fellows here is about Hooters.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:25

Well, it's funny because I've wanted to, and I'll probably roll out with some version of this video, and you know, here I sit with a hat with a skull on it, and and like I see hats and I see t-shirts in the motorcycle community with profanity or like flipping, right? And that's who bikers are, but bikers are also the the person who stops and helps you fix your car, helps you change your tire, opens the door for uh a woman that's walking into a building. There's a traditionalism that I've noticed and a kindness that I've noticed with bikers, because if you've been broken down on the side of the road, you know, um, I've raced dangerously fast behind on a motorcycle behind a truck that stuff is falling out or about to fall out of its bed, and I go, if any of this shit falls, I could be toast, but I gotta catch this guy and let him know he's about to lose his whole load of camping gear. And and you do that because it's like I think when you're on a bike, you're just so much more aware, you're so connected, yeah. Yeah, and you're thinking, like, well, what how would I like to be treated? I think there's a lot of that in biking, and I think I think some of the flipping off and some of the grumpiness and tattoos and and things, it's it's part of the culture, and I think it's part of uh the individualism that like that. Also, I saw a video recently that said like if you ride a motorcycle, you probably rate high on this trait of individualism that you want to go your own way, and it's uh it's on you know a spectrum of personality traits, and um and I think you know, and there are people all over that spectrum, and and there are probably people in our community who want to go where everybody else is going too. But uh yeah, I I do think that mainly that that Harley guy look, nobody's community is as strong as the Harley community. Oh no, no, no, to have Sturgis based around like I went to a a festival in Chicago that was the the main bike sponsor was Royal Enfield, and it's fun little festival. It wasn't Sturgis, it wasn't uh uh huge, you know, and I think I think as as much as we can, if we I think we just gotta be inviting. I think the old Honda campaign is actually true. Is like in my experience, you meet the nicest people on motorcycles, exactly, and not just Hondas, but on motorcycles. And I I'll I'll lie if I didn't if I don't say when I get on these Evo Springers, and it's like go down. I feel badass, I totally do, and I kind of when I pull up to the gas station, I kind of want people to leave me the fucking one, you know, and just like uh inclination, but I also think there has to be like a lot of inviting to be in the community and and participate in the community, and and then all these nuances kind of come out, and people go, Oh, these people kind of they're not mean per se. They're not scary. They just they maybe they have maybe the shower.

SPEAKER_06 1:21:10

Hey, I want to do business real quick. All right, do business. Uh just there, you can don't go away. Uh, if you want to support the podcast, get over to buy us some coffee, or you can buy us a pizza, either way. And uh that uh that helps us the podcast out a little bit. Um get on our mailing list, and if you want a sticker, uh new motorcycle men sticker, or our brand new South Sandwich Islands Moto Club sticker, uh just let me know and I'll definitely send one of those off to you.

SPEAKER_05 1:21:37

Gotta come riding here one day.

SPEAKER_06 1:21:38

Yeah. Buy my book. My book, the Roadbush Travel, is available on the Motorcycle Men website now for a little eight bucks cheaper than you would get it on Amazon. So you can get it there. And of course, the audio book is available. Uh don't forget to get on over and check out the videos on the Ride with Ted YouTube channel. They're moving along. I've got a couple new ones coming out. And uh Scorpion helmets. Let me get into the business music, the Bindet music. Here we go. There we go. That's our Bindet music. Scorpion helmets offering high-quality, innovative motorcycle helmets and technical apparel at an incredible value. To learn more, get on over to scorpionusa.com. And we got Wild Ass Seats to improve your comfort and ability to stay in the saddle longer. Uh you get a cushion from Wild Dass Seats. So if you're tired of those painful pressure points and fatigue, get on over to uh wild. Wild.com. Wilddass ass. Well, I can't say this. Wildass.com. And you tell the real Craig Johnson that your ass hurts and he'll get you a cushion. And of course, Viking Bags, world leader in motorcycle luggage and one of the fastest growing companies in motorcycle parts. Luggage for whatever you need, wherever you go, and whatever you ride. We got Viking Bags. And of course, as always, Tobacco Motorware for the best in casual riding gear for men and women. There's only one place you should be going, and that is Dave's pants. Over at Tobacco Motorware.com. That's tobacco motorware.com. And uh our listeners will get uh 10% off when you use the code MOTOMEN. Your safety is worth it, so get over to Tobacco Motorware and get in Dave's pants.

SPEAKER_05 1:23:14

Yes. I like it.

SPEAKER_06 1:23:16

Now, listen, I I gotta give credit where credit is due. Tim came up with that sever uh several years ago when we were doing this, and he said, Yeah, we get in Dave's pants. So uh we think Dave, you should launch a new ad campaign that simply says that simply says get in our pants.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:34

Yeah, yeah. I I tried to do one last year that was always wear protection, and um I had a girl like putting a condom on a banana and drawing the the analogy that you protect your head and your body, and you're you know, you need to protect your legs, and uh it didn't go over so well. It wasn't as terrible as as I thought. I thought it was just gonna be funny, but I think some people were were not, you know, maybe they had a different health teacher than I had.

SPEAKER_06 1:24:14

I'm telling you, you gotta do the get in Dave's pants thing. You got you gotta write something around that, do the get in Dave's pants.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:20

All right, I'll I'll give that a whirl. Thanks.

SPEAKER_06 1:24:22

It'll work. I promise you it'll work.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:24

No, I love hearing it. Uh you got uh yeah, it's it's funny for sure. And and uh I I love listening to the podcast and and hearing my little plugs you guys come up with.

SPEAKER_06 1:24:37

Well, listen, uh that's all I got for now. Is there anything you want to add, Dave, before we kick off?

SPEAKER_04 1:24:43

Man, not really. Uh just uh, you know, if you if you want to check out tobacco motorware, tobacco motorware.com, that's the place to go, like you said. If you want to follow us on socials, tobacco motorware co. on Instagram, tobacco motorware mc is where where you'll shortly be able to see my ex escapades with all my springers, my harem of springers.

SPEAKER_06 1:25:10

Harem of Springers. There's something there. There's something there.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:15

That's what they call a group. Like there's a flock of seagulls. You have like, you know, a harem of springers.

SPEAKER_06 1:25:23

Yeah, there's something, there's a story behind this. We have to we have to we have to work something in there, make a story out of it. Um that has been free. So that's pretty much it. Again, I'm Ted your host here in the Motorcycle Men Podcast. And uh we got we got Tim Buck2 here with us. And Chris! And of course, Justin Brown.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:44

Shut the fuck up!

SPEAKER_06 1:25:47

Um, we gotta hold, we gotta give I gotta get Dave his sound. There it is, right? So um nobody hears but you. Oh, you guys didn't hear the sound? I'd say it's like all the sound effects. Every week, I know. I got the sound effects going here. You know, the audience can hear, but not you guys, and that's okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:04

You gotta have a boy y'all.

SPEAKER_06 1:26:06

Oh I gotta find, I gotta get one. I don't have the blue boner.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:12

Hello blue boner.

SPEAKER_06 1:26:13

Yeah. But uh that's it. So yeah, um, Tim, how do you want to sign off? Ride like nobody sees you. This is the fun part. Uh uh, Chris.

SPEAKER_05 1:26:23

Uh Ride like Dave doesn't see you.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:27

Justin, ride like when you get ready to sell your bike, Dave's gonna buy it.

SPEAKER_06 1:26:35

Dave, you want to sign off on something?

SPEAKER_04 1:26:38

Oh man, on the spot. Ride uh right, that's it, boys and girls.

SPEAKER_06 1:26:53

Thanks for joining us. And remember, kids, we say stupid crap, so you don't have to. Uh here we go. What did you do?

SPEAKER_01 1:27:13

But she's gonna butter, bitter. If I put it in my battery, it will make my battery bitter. So she went and bought a bit of better butter, put it in her bitter, batter, bitter, bitter, batter, better, so it's better, baby, butter, bottom of better butter.